tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post8655758214580278731..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: Dutch Report on Trafficking in ChinaResearch-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-17241596320876067702008-11-10T20:44:00.000-08:002008-11-10T20:44:00.000-08:00I believe the Chinese are trying to ramp down and ...I believe the Chinese are trying to ramp down and close their program. I would be surprised if it was still in place through the next year. I think most of the reluctance to close it more quickly is that the CCAA is not confident a Special Needs program will be workable by itself.<BR/><BR/>The next 12 months will be very interesting.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-43440035713215002452008-11-10T20:30:00.000-08:002008-11-10T20:30:00.000-08:00As a PAP, I am so confused regarding my feelings t...As a PAP, I am so confused regarding my feelings toward China's program. I find myself wondering, is it legitimate for me and my family to adopt from China? Are we "stealing" a child, not necessarily from her biological parents, but from her birthland, from people of her birthland that COULD adopt her? Is it all moot anyway with a 2007 LID? (i.e we will never see a referral.) And if there isn't the need, why doesn't China close the shut the program down? I don't for a minute believe they wouldn't close it due to any outside pressure. Since when has China or any closed societal system bowed to "outside pressure?" Brian, why doesn't China end the NSN adoption program? If there isn't the need for international adoption (and I am not challenging you that there is or there isn't that need) why continue the program?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-32127372669182638592008-09-21T11:08:00.000-07:002008-09-21T11:08:00.000-07:00"But personally, I doubt this situation exists on ..."But personally, I doubt this situation exists on a significant scale"<BR/>I would rethink this doubt. I have seen multiple posts as well talking about people who pre-identified children or lobbied to get certain kids adopted from orphanages.<BR/>This is not part of the regular process and should be considered unethical.<BR/>Nannies and directors should not have any part in matching children.<BR/>Agencies should not be in orphanages and checking over children.<BR/><BR/>All too often agency staff pre-identifies a child during visits. Also rules are bent so that they can bypass the strict regulations that others have to pass with China. Artificial twinning is another issue reported, where a person is offered 2 children in their adoption and they are legally made to look like twins on paper even though they are not. DNA tests should be manditory for twins.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line, the China program is not being controlled and the loopholes have become large gaping holes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-13369522766467761552008-09-21T06:13:00.000-07:002008-09-21T06:13:00.000-07:00I am unable to comment on "anecdotal" evidence tha...I am unable to comment on "anecdotal" evidence that lacks specificity. If a family has experienced something like this, please contact me with the name of the orphanage and we can investigate it. But personally, I doubt this situation exists on a significant scale.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-17819322623428533862008-09-20T19:28:00.000-07:002008-09-20T19:28:00.000-07:00I have been hearing anecdotal stories of parents r...I have been hearing anecdotal stories of parents returning recently from adoption trips to China where the nannies or SWI workers are pulling them to the side asking them to help find hte childrne families. Mostly healthy kids over 2 years or so. One family brought back photos of about a dozen healthy 3-4 year olds that the director hoped could find families. This is a huge SWI in a major city. So why are the locals not adopting them? Why are they not submitted for oeverseas adoption? Where is this child shortage?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-81056842297308334722008-09-17T11:57:00.000-07:002008-09-17T11:57:00.000-07:00Volume is one indicator, but there are several oth...Volume is one indicator, but there are several others. Your idea is a very good one, however.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-18387184622369041632008-09-17T11:50:00.000-07:002008-09-17T11:50:00.000-07:00Is it not possible to identify the "high volume re...Is it not possible to identify the "high volume referral of healthy infant" SWIs in Guangdong, Jiangxi, and Hunan, as highly suspect SWI in regards to likely baby-trafficking.<BR/>Could this information then be used to recommend that referrals from those SWI be considered suspect by adoption agencies and PAPs. Perhaps that would be the impetus for the CCAA and authorities in China to do something more iimpactful?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-15435182508358374292008-09-15T13:07:00.000-07:002008-09-15T13:07:00.000-07:00Possibly, but I have seen no evidence of any. If ...Possibly, but I have seen no evidence of any. If Fuzhou's adoption numbers decline by 60-80%, then it will be evidence that something was done, for example.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-40631801919828516632008-09-15T07:59:00.000-07:002008-09-15T07:59:00.000-07:00Thank you for your post. While it is evident that...Thank you for your post. <BR/><BR/>While it is evident that no ajency wants to be the one find the smoking gun - do you feel that some pressue will be or has been made on the local orphanges to straighten up?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-24938803806453838862008-09-14T06:40:00.000-07:002008-09-14T06:40:00.000-07:00"The relinquishment of children is punishable by l..."The relinquishment of children is punishable by law."<BR/><BR/>-We continue to see children left at orphanage gates or civil affairs offices. If the laws were being enforced, would these parents walk up and place a child at a gate when many orphanages have gatekeepers or staff present. The question would be whether these kids are truly left in these locations or is this false information recorded during the processing information.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"In order to exclude that parents did not voluntarily relinquish and are possibly still looking for their children there is always an investigation into the place of origin of the child and data considering the finder and the circumstances in which the child was found are registered. Also an advert is placed during in a provincial newspaper during which parents have 60 days to react. In practice parents to not react to that." <BR/><BR/>-Orphanage directors have reported that they routinely alter information to hinder a birth parents ability to reclaim their child. The finding ads are not being properly used to locate and have shown to be unsuccessful.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"The making of profit is generally considered unethical. In Western countries, and by now also in China itself, there is a large demand for adoptable children while the offer worldwide, also in China, is declining. There is therefore a risk that despite the prohibition money or other favours are offered to get children for adoption. The Hague Adoption Convention explicitly prohibits the making of profit by anyone involved in adoptions. Reimburse costs and donations to children's homes are allowed."<BR/><BR/>-Agencies routinely set up charity funds and channel money directly into orphanages. Families are often encouraged by agencies to offer gifts and donations in excess of the mandatory donation. Despite the large revenue that many IA participating orphanages make, they continue to claim that they need more financial assistance. Adequate nutrition and medication is often not made accessible for the children by orphanages and rely on outside organizations to provide these. Low staff ratio is all too often an issue and life-saving surgeries are not done enough without outside assistance.<BR/>Adequate heat during cold months is also not provided in most orphanages and issues of deprivation and neglect continue to be prevalent despite financial growth.<BR/>It is obvious that many orphanages are profiting from the donations offered. The money is simply not reaching the children.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"CCAA acknowledges that in practice the giving of a certain amount to the finder of a child as reward for the fact that he or she brought the child to the Children's Home, does happen. It concerns, according to the Chinese authorities, mainly symbolic amounts. Also it happens, like in other countries, that the finder is reimbursed for travel, care or medical costs. About the admissibility of such payments there are in China different interpretations. CCAA is of the opinion that in no case many (money) may be paid to finders. For this reason CCAA has started recently a campaign to create awareness that anyone who brings in a foundling will need to involve the local police, instead of bringing the child to a children's home." <BR/><BR/>-CCAA knew that children were being paid for in orphanages. They knew there was an incentve program set up and utilized to gain access to children. They did nothing despite the issues seen with the Hunan orphanages. The rewards offered are not symbolic, but represent a years salary in the rural areas where most children’s homes are found. Therefore trafficking did occur routinely and CCAA has knowledge of this practice. There is no way to ensure whether these children paid for were true orphans or snatched children. This also hinders the ability to know for sure what the date of birth was of the child in order to successfully find true parents in finding ads. Children could have been brought from different provinces in large batches and orphanages were still taking them in without properly processing them.<BR/>CCAA has only recently begun to stress the importance of police reports. This is also another serious infraction that is shown. Without a proper police report filed, the adoption should not have been processed.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Also the Chinese side showed to be prepared to accompany children in their request to see their adoption file when in the interest of their personal development." <BR/><BR/>-All files should be open information to adoptive parents and children. Police reports and hospital records should also have been open to adoptive parents at time of adoption.<BR/>CCAA owes the children a copy of all information in the files for past, present and future adoptions. Access into orphanages and communication between staff and adoptive families should also be mandatory.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"They acknowledge however that in practice irregularities took place and may continue to take place when persons (criminals) consciously bypass the regulations." <BR/><BR/>-If the Chinese program is this vulnerable, then massive reform needs to happen before adoptions continue. Any agency or country that continues to work with China while knowing this should be held accountable for any irregularities in adoptions.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"The worrying sounds about the practice of payment by homes, especially the news of the ABC-news of May this year, I have brought to the attention of the CCAA. <BR/>CCAA has taken the incident in Hunan at the time as occasion to convince all Child Welfare Institutes and Social Welfare institutes from where children are adopted that payments for children are prohibited. The news reporting of ABC-news calls for the question if that approach was sufficient. That is from the Netherlands of course difficult to conclude."<BR/><BR/>-The Netherlands and all other countries cannot safely conclude that the Hunan situation had any success on curbing corrupt practices by orphanages. Without access to investigate and noting that CCAA had used Hunan to convince Social Welfare Institutes that payments are prohibited, shows how little control CCAA has over how each province chooses to run and how each SWI chooses to operate.<BR/>The Hunan scandal did not correct the issues of baby buying for ICA. ABC proved this. All countries that continue to work with CCAA are now aware that payment programs are happening and the receiving countries have no way to verify whether CCAA is finally going to begin to oversee orphanages and enforce the laws of the Hague. <BR/><BR/><BR/>"The fact that CCAA in the conversation acknowledges that the interpretation of certain rules in practice differ, has shown consciousness that payment incidentally happens and sets up a countrywide campaign to make clear that payments are not authorized, makes clear the Chinese authorities acknowledge these problems and are not getting away from their responsibility."<BR/><BR/>-This clearly shows that the Chinese adoption program has serious issues and is getting away with much more than any other country is able to. CCAA is not being held accountable for the lack of proper oversight and at this point the China international adoption program is shown to be corrupt, irregular and in breach of many Hague laws. Children and birth parents are not being protected under this program and too much room for corruption is presented. <BR/><BR/><BR/>"It speaks for itself, that the risk of incidental irregularities at provincial level, as lined out before, require continuous alertness and the critical following of adoption, as well from the side of the Central authority and the Dutch diplomatic representation in China, as well as from the side of the adoption agencies who mediate the placement of children from China." <BR/><BR/>-If the Dutch government has reached this conclusion, then why would they continue to allow ICA from China without reform?<BR/><BR/><BR/>"As indicated before, it is in the interest of the children that irregularities in procedures are prevented as much as possible, and fought. I am of the opinion that there is also a responsibility at the Dutch side and consider it important that, if there are indications of ongoing irregularities, in all cases immediately these will be brought to the attention of the Chinese authorities."<BR/><BR/>-How will the Dutch government find these irregularities? It is the CCAA’s job to police it’s own program and they have now proven that they are unable to do so effectively. This program is not a reliable program and due to China’s resistance to change relinquishment policies and allow for total transparency a suspension should be made until China’s adoption program reforms to meet the standards of the Hague agreement. If the Dutch government if of the opinion that there is also a responsibility on the Dutch side, then they must be ready to legally deal with the responsibility of future corruption if they choose to proceed with ICA from China.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-89990830659565524952008-09-13T18:06:00.000-07:002008-09-13T18:06:00.000-07:00I think, in general, most of the children are reli...I think, in general, most of the children are relinquished willingly by birth parents (if you don't consider offering money undue pressure). However, the Dianjiang orphanage case shows how easy it is for someone to kidnap a baby and sell it to the orphanage for international adoption, so such cases are not unheard of. But I do think they are in a very small minority.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-9462181920478145062008-09-13T11:40:00.000-07:002008-09-13T11:40:00.000-07:00While a majority of babies come from orphanages th...While a majority of babies come from orphanages that buy babies, do you have any kind of estimate on how many of these babies were abducted or otherwise taken from their birthparents without the birthparents' consent? (I don't consider outside pressure or official taking "consent.") <BR/>I'm wondering 1) how many birthparents give up their children voluntarily, 2) what percentage of us with children from China have children not given up voluntarily, and 3) how many of the babies adopted out from Chinese SWIs were bought (whether abducted or not). I know you cannot know exactly, but any rough ideas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-19814856157400814752008-09-12T13:00:00.000-07:002008-09-12T13:00:00.000-07:00I am aware of the comments of this "Chinese woman"...I am aware of the comments of this "Chinese woman" concerning this subject. It is always a bit humorous that some families look to people who have been to one orphanage on an adoption trip as an authority in these matters.<BR/><BR/>As far as not "being on the ground", I have been to China 20 times in the last five years, or on average four times a year. In that time I have visited and met with over 50 orphanages directors, spoken with thousands of orphanage employees, interviewed hundreds of finders. When it comes to being "on the ground" there are few more connected to China's orphanages than I am.<BR/><BR/>The Dutch report proved nothing about the integrity of China's program because there was no investigative component to their report. The Dutch went to China, sat down with the CCAA, were given an orphanage tour, and somehow feel this demonstrates that the allegations of child trafficking were baseless. It is a pathetic attempt to cover their collective asses.<BR/><BR/>The Dutch report is instructive, however, because it shows how pointless it is to bring allegations and evidence of corruption to any government. The Dutch are not unique in their response -- it has been repeated many times over, and most relevant to us with the Hunan scandal.<BR/><BR/>My evidence has been submitted to every agency I am aware of -- Ethica, Unicef, Amnesty International, U.S. Department of State, and the Dutch Government. All of the NGOs (Unicef, etc.) simply stated that they had no ability to investigate, and that I should go to the media. We see what the Dutch Government did -- asked a few questions, were openly lied to, and came home happy.<BR/><BR/>I am in near constant contact with scores of orphanage directors. So I am able to confidently say that contrary to the assurances of the CCAA to the Dutch government, no action has been taken since Hunan to curb baby-buying programs. No effort has been made at all to stop this practice. The girl stolen by the Family Planning in Gaoping is not still in the Shaoyang orphanage, but lives in the States. Having personally spoken with the Gaoping families (and others who have had children taken) I can tell you the children were not willingly given up by their parents, adoptive or biological. The Dutch Government was fed a pile of bull.<BR/><BR/>But, the sad reality is that it is difficult to get a major news organization to commit to an in-depth investigative report about China's program. Many (like ABC News) are willing to grab the easy story, but I am trying to get someone to commit to investigating the over 50 orphanages I have evidence for of trafficking.<BR/><BR/>So, people can go on about how this problem probably exists, but is isolated and infrequent. Since these people have seldom set foot in an orphanage little weight should be given to their opinion. The sad reality is that a majority of adopted children from China come from orphanages that buy babies.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-2540390229380212402008-09-12T12:27:00.000-07:002008-09-12T12:27:00.000-07:00Dear Brian, Please can you help me understand this...Dear Brian, <BR/><BR/>Please can you help me understand this situation? When I read your blog, this morning I thought about key issues the report of the Netherlands and I could see clearly why you feel as passionately as you do about this issue of dishonesty in the program . <BR/><BR/>Later today, I read a post of a woman who is Chinese. I always read his posts because I think they should be a good reflection on the rights and opinions of Chinese citizens. <BR/>Sometimes she uses your blog to reference and sides with you today his post your blog made me question about this situation Dutch. <BR/>Explain please. <BR/><BR/>What is your real motivation to denounce the "conclusions" that you have done? Is this just a publicity campaign, as suggested by this person? <BR/><BR/>It is said that you are not actually on the ground inside China? You are pretending. Using local alternative to deceive or persuade people? <BR/>Are you simply try to get a media person to work with your information and have failed? Is this why we have not seen "expose"? <BR/><BR/>The woman said that you refuse to go to the government because you know that you do not have what it takes to meet the standards of investigation? Is this true? Why do not you take this evidence the government? <BR/><BR/>You say the Dutch would get to the bottom of this according to this source, and now it seems that the Dutch are not taking this seriously? Why not? <BR/><BR/>please explain. Is this a game of manipulation and why a woman who is Chinese defend the China program so strongly if it was really as bad as you claim? <BR/><BR/>Who am I to believe or should I just go ahead and trust that governments have done what needed to be done? <BR/><BR/>I do not want to adopt a child victims of trafficking or add it to a bad program. I want a baby and I think a woman Chinese understand this situation better than anyone else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-44246295099483309202008-09-12T10:34:00.000-07:002008-09-12T10:34:00.000-07:00this is very ugly and disturbing. thank you for a...this is very ugly and disturbing. thank you for answering my question.Sallymanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06178287309751639633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-49374795754317319812008-09-12T10:25:00.000-07:002008-09-12T10:25:00.000-07:00Intuitively I question whether orphanages pay mone...Intuitively I question whether orphanages pay money for SN children. However, I have a hidden-mike recording with the gate keeper of the Changde orphanage in which she offers 1,000 yuan for a cleft-affected boy. So, I can't say for certain that minor SN children are not also being purchased.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-7056560166658103262008-09-12T09:59:00.000-07:002008-09-12T09:59:00.000-07:00brian,so sorry to see the attacks on your article....brian,<BR/>so sorry to see the attacks on your article. you are too kind in publishing them. if people really think you are wrong, they should supply evidence of their contrary views, not just emotional backlashes without basis. thank you for posting about the inadequacies of the dutch "report."<BR/><BR/>i probably should read more of your blog to maybe find the answer to my question, but do you know if money is given for unhealthy relinquished children? our boy, who we don't have yet, is minor special needs.<BR/>thanks,<BR/>sallySallymanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06178287309751639633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-2200848161592719672008-09-12T09:47:00.000-07:002008-09-12T09:47:00.000-07:00I'm not sure why American Embassy personal were no...I'm not sure why American Embassy personal were not there. Perhaps they were not invited, or maybe they were invited but didn't attend. <BR/><BR/>I do know that it is difficult to get governments interested in this kind of things -- the general attitude is not to rock the boat with other countries.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-35928415019859818082008-09-12T08:41:00.000-07:002008-09-12T08:41:00.000-07:00Hi Brian ! So grateful to you about the translatio...Hi Brian ! So grateful to you about the translation... Thanks so much.<BR/>I am trying to make out the reason why American amabassy (or any other American body) did not attend the meeting?<BR/>Are American not interested in the question? Rather surprising for the 1st country of residence for Chinese orphans worldwide, don't you think?.<BR/><BR/>Longing forward to reading your view...<BR/><BR/>Best regards <BR/>French MarianneFrench Mariannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13163512934507770599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-37068985008353368262008-09-12T05:52:00.000-07:002008-09-12T05:52:00.000-07:00We had hoped the Dutch would do some kind of inves...We had hoped the Dutch would do some kind of investigation, but didn't hold out much hope. The investigations I am aware of are by large media organizations.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-12005598805820063292008-09-12T05:16:00.000-07:002008-09-12T05:16:00.000-07:00Thanks for posting the translation, Brian -- extre...Thanks for posting the translation, Brian -- extremely helpful!<BR/><BR/>Is this the investigation you mentioned in the previous post, or are there other investigations into the IA program ongoing?malindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233439015219192874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-90078708649757549302008-09-11T16:32:00.000-07:002008-09-11T16:32:00.000-07:00I contacted UNICEF with information about the ince...I contacted UNICEF with information about the incentive program and also issues of baby trafficking into Canada and U.S. from China and I was told that there was simply nothing they could do about this issue and that it would be wise to go to a media source when dealing with China.<BR/>The woman directed me towards a couple of media sources and that was the end with Unicef.<BR/>They advised me that Unicef had minimal access into China's IA program and the only real way to investigate and expose would be through media. <BR/>This was not what my hope was, however this was the reality with the Unicef staff who was in charge of these issues.<BR/>This was only month’s back, so not really considered outdated.<BR/><BR/>I am surprised to see Unicef now being named here- really very ironic.<BR/><BR/>Why does CCAA or China need organizations to police its own program? If the program is this untrustworthy then some larger changes should be made rather than opting to hire babysitters.<BR/><BR/>As for the translation attacks, I am grateful that Roelie offered this service so we can all have access to this 'interesting' report. <BR/><BR/>Quite possibly we have more to learn from those who were deemed "anti-adoption" than we once thought,<BR/>Sort of like the past attacks on those "angry adoptees". IMO they have many reasons to be "angry".<BR/><BR/>CathyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-79151728863585100102008-09-11T13:26:00.000-07:002008-09-11T13:26:00.000-07:00When asked if Unicef had any information on China'...When asked if Unicef had any information on China's adoption program, they responded thusly:<BR/><BR/>"Currently UNICEF China office doesn't have a project on adoption as such but we are including this component to be looked into through one of the<BR/>"mini"- situation analysis that we are conducting as part of our Mid Term Review of our Country Programme with the Government of China - an initial step leading to perhaps a more comprehensive study that we may want to consider conducting in the future."<BR/><BR/>Not exactly a statement of knowledge and comprehension as to these issues.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-37816398984449669392008-09-11T13:00:00.000-07:002008-09-11T13:00:00.000-07:00The Dutch Authorities have also discussed the matt...The Dutch Authorities have also discussed the matter with representitives of Unicef and other welfare organizations. With all respect, you are not the only authority in this matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-44350670780373065782008-09-11T11:06:00.000-07:002008-09-11T11:06:00.000-07:00Readers are of course encouraged to point out majo...Readers are of course encouraged to point out major inaccuracies if they exist, but Ms. Post's biases are not relevant to any discussion of the translation since a link is provided to the actual report. Missing "Unicef" hardly constitutes a display of bias.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.com