tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post5084974189456459670..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: Orphanage Submissions for 2009Research-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-15069696646087548612010-05-05T08:20:54.314-07:002010-05-05T08:20:54.314-07:00No, I haven't seen any correlation between the...No, I haven't seen any correlation between the type of orphanage and the quality of their programs.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-908931039682954882010-05-05T03:34:23.564-07:002010-05-05T03:34:23.564-07:00Thank you for all of this information.
I adopted ...Thank you for all of this information.<br /><br />I adopted my daughter from Hunan province in 2003.<br /><br />The city where she was located actually has two different orphangages: a Children's Welfare Institute and a Social Welfare Institute.<br /><br />Have you found any difference between the two in your research on trafficking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-41796943654205210632009-09-22T06:28:54.286-07:002009-09-22T06:28:54.286-07:00Before a child's paperwork is sent to the CCA...Before a child's paperwork is sent to the CCAA, a newspaper finding ad must be placed. I have collected all of these "finding ads" from all over China. These allow one to know with precision how many children are being submitted by each orphanage.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-69704650960325540832009-09-21T23:34:17.612-07:002009-09-21T23:34:17.612-07:00what I don't understand is from where do you g...what I don't understand is from where do you get all these data... how do you know how many submissions does every orphanage?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-14369549176934666602009-09-18T18:42:32.726-07:002009-09-18T18:42:32.726-07:00I am a parent of an adopted child from Inner Mongo...I am a parent of an adopted child from Inner Mongolia and I can tell you that in Hohhot there have always been more SN boys there. I have the photos to prove it. Most of them live in the orphanage and the many of the girls are fostered. In addition, children that are fostered in other cities in Inner Mongolia are adopted through the Hohhot SWI but they are from other orphanages like Chifeng, Baotou etc. My child at one time was likely an SN child and when her supposed medical issue resolved itself was submitted to the CCAA for IA. I found all of this out by accident, not from the orphanage or my adoption agency and when I pressed them for truthful information about her past, I got it. How I wish I had known more how much leverage I truly had prior to signing papers and I would likely have even more information. In any case I would have adopted her anyway and she is the best thing that ever happened to me.<br />There have been a significant number of boy adoptions in Inner Mongolia because they have more SN boys than NSN boys or NSN girls available at most times. I don't know why. Also I have heard that at one time, the Hohhot SWI had mostly SN adoptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-72472127202783521212009-09-15T20:29:08.945-07:002009-09-15T20:29:08.945-07:00Beijing gets children from a wide area. My data i...Beijing gets children from a wide area. My data isn't complete for Beijing, but it appears to be adopting more children also.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-36873299893572176802009-09-15T13:05:50.062-07:002009-09-15T13:05:50.062-07:00Brian,
I miss submissions from Beijing. It looks ...Brian,<br /><br />I miss submissions from Beijing. It looks like there have been many referrals for older children(3/4 years) from the Beijing CWI in recent months, mostly healthy boys. Can you explain this?Marianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-9100263217716307642009-09-11T06:43:14.549-07:002009-09-11T06:43:14.549-07:00Chris:
One problem with anecdotes such as yours (...Chris:<br /><br />One problem with anecdotes such as yours (as much as I appreciate your contribution) is that they lack specificity with which one could test theories. If you gave me the orphanage name, I could test the idea that children are "held back". Be that as it may, even if the it is determined that such a case is true (and it could very well be!) that would have little relevance to the Guangzhou orphanage, which has had many years of experience, refers younger children when available, etc. I was not attempting to paint all orphanages with such a broad stroke -- there are specific reasons Guangzhou's numbers have changed, it is not an unknown. <br /><br />But your overall assessment is completely accurate. The more general one speaks of a subject, the more the trees are lots in the forest. There are of course many exceptions to the rule, and those exceptions are often lost in the broad strokes we are forced to paint when discussing these issues.<br /><br />I appreciate your input. Keep them coming!<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-71380860217426521202009-09-11T06:17:46.621-07:002009-09-11T06:17:46.621-07:00Brian,
Evidence on our child's SW1 orphanage g...Brian,<br />Evidence on our child's SW1 orphanage group site stated that files were held back there due to a prominent case of an early referral when the child turned out to have sever developmental problems, resulting in criticism of the SW1 and the decision to wait until children were older for referral. Take it or leave it; but I know of at least two or three children of around 2.8 to 3.5 from my child's SW1. Yes, I know, just another anecdote. But one of the more tangible effects of mounting albeit well-founded statistical generalisations (abstracted for the good of all)l is that individual cases become subsumed in the greater general narrative. This is a much-remarked effect of broad analysis and shows how incommensurate the two realms can be. Statistics tell an important story, no doubt. But surely one must be so careful in extrapolating from within those statistics. <br /><br /> In our child's case (abandoned at birth, if you believe the documents) the finding photo is of an infant around 3/4 months or less, and there is another of her in crib at around 1.4, asleep and anonymous taken by a visitor, and one more at a later age of around 1.9. So our child's referral at nearly three does not (unless you ascribe to very tricky malevolence and manipulation) add up to the kind of scenario you paint, although of course I can see that you are spot-on in pointing out some of the gross anomalies. <br /><br />Sigh. <br /><br />One feels inevitably that one is simply mounting a frenzied non-mea-culpa. However, I do feel it necessary to assert the import of tempering the axe with the feather, so to speak, because the emotionally embedded individual speaks in such a different tongue to the rational group. <br /><br />best wishes <br /><br />ChrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12402904249330611978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-28588040703794232382009-09-10T13:42:12.456-07:002009-09-10T13:42:12.456-07:00Brian - many of the children referred from Guizhou...Brian - many of the children referred from Guizhou (and I know there are few), are often older at the time their files are submitted to CCAA because many of the NSN children in the surrounding rural SWIs live with foster families in the capital city - Guiyang, for some time after their arrival at the SWIs. There's a very stuctured foster network there - run within Guizhou, by Chinese folks, that works very closely with the foster families to prepare the kids for their transition to their adoptive families. Many children are over 17 months old at the time of referral - in the NSN program. <br /><br /> - SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-12320927644492949452009-09-10T11:19:39.648-07:002009-09-10T11:19:39.648-07:00Thanks for the info.
What percentage of the submi...Thanks for the info.<br /><br />What percentage of the submissions was SN vs. NSN? I suspect we are seeing a further reduction of NSN children for the IA program. <br /><br />Guangdong and Jiangxi have to be suffering some economic woes with the world economy issues, particularly the high population of migrant factory workers and construction workers out of work– I am pleasantly surprised that the numbers did not increase more in those areas.NEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-57710316183109938312009-09-10T09:53:33.447-07:002009-09-10T09:53:33.447-07:00Well, we all hear a lot of things. I can only say...Well, we all hear a lot of things. I can only say what I know -- having spoken with many, many directors, no one has ever confirmed a quota; in fact, all have stated they are under pressure to place as many kids as possible.<br /><br />Second, in February 2006 the CCAA held a large director's meeting in which they pushed directors to submit as many files as they can. Other things were talked about, but that is the most pertinent here.<br /><br />Third, there is no evidence to support the contention that the CCAA is actively working to reduce international adoptions.<br /><br />The program is dropping for one simple reason -- the number of foundlings is declining (due to various reasons). <br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-81851141774077844322009-09-10T09:45:06.331-07:002009-09-10T09:45:06.331-07:00No quota system? I've heard that CCAA wants t...No quota system? I've heard that CCAA wants to control (ie. lower) the numbers that go out through IA. Is that not true?<br /><br />So what is the reason the numbers in the IA program have been dropping? Are there truly less children in the orphanages? If anyone knows the answer to this - I would imagine you do! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-85422160028696262412009-09-09T19:30:25.267-07:002009-09-09T19:30:25.267-07:00No, there is no quota system. In fact, the CCAA h...No, there is no quota system. In fact, the CCAA has been repeatedly pushing the orphanages to submit as many files as possible.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-78051894083576187102009-09-09T18:17:18.457-07:002009-09-09T18:17:18.457-07:00Regarding the possible reasons for the files of ns...Regarding the possible reasons for the files of nsn's children being held back...could it be that the SWI's are under some sort of quota system?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-59416123173970159762009-09-09T09:33:24.370-07:002009-09-09T09:33:24.370-07:00I appreciate your input. Zhongshan has been part o...I appreciate your input. Zhongshan has been part of the IA program since before 2000, but took a five-year hiatus from 2002 through 2006. In 2007 they submitted six files, and 44 in 2008. You are correct that a majority of the children are SN (only 7 of the 50 submissions were healthy children).<br /><br />The trip by the adoption agency leaves the primary question unanswered: Why were the files for healthy children apparently held back? (We go into the probable origin of these kids on the Subscription blog). My question is: Why were their files not submitted earlier?<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-45894991114030675812009-09-09T09:18:40.379-07:002009-09-09T09:18:40.379-07:00I agree with your analysis, however, I want to bri...I agree with your analysis, however, I want to bring up two points.<br /><br />In July 2009, a US adoption agency made a special trip to try and place older healthy (8-13 year olds) and older SN children from Guangzhou. A number of these files would probably have been submitted in the spring of 2009, in preparation for the agency's trip. This could skew the analysis a bit.<br /><br />Also, Zhongshan in Guangdong Province has only recently started to place kids for IA, and so far they have been SN. I have heard that the orphanage has 500-600 children living there with a very large % being SN. This may also skew some of the analysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-28630249953913653952009-09-09T08:32:56.908-07:002009-09-09T08:32:56.908-07:00Yes, the time from when a child is found to when t...Yes, the time from when a child is found to when their file is submitted is an indication of an orphanage program's "efficiency". Often a file for a healthy child may be held for a month or two, but for a file to be held a year or more is very unusual. So the question in Guangzhou is why were the files held for healthy children for years when they could have been submitted much earlier? <br /><br />The only conclusion I can come up with for such a large number of children is that they didn't enter the orphanage on their finding dates, but much later.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-17310177619867669262009-09-09T08:08:09.158-07:002009-09-09T08:08:09.158-07:00Brian
Can you please clarify the relationship bet...Brian<br /><br />Can you please clarify the relationship between the age of the child when found and the age when referred? I noticed a slide in your article and was a bit confused. When a file is submitted for IA are you simply taking into account the age when found as stated in their file? ...In other words, that children might have remained in SWI's for a long time despite their having come into the orphanage at a very young age? <br /><br />cheers,<br /><br />chrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12402904249330611978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-52302706203141539222009-09-08T11:48:19.670-07:002009-09-08T11:48:19.670-07:00I don't think it is healthy to introduce possi...I don't think it is healthy to introduce possibilities to our children that may not be (and probably aren't) true. While there are cases of kidnapped children being adopted internationally, these are in the vast minority. I prefer to keep quiet what I don't know, acknowledge my lack of definitive truth, and leave it open for my children to sort out.<br /><br />Thanks for your input!<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-91709432575945447852009-09-08T11:43:36.371-07:002009-09-08T11:43:36.371-07:00I think every child should be told they might have...I think every child should be told they might have been stolen from their parents. It is obvious with the falling numbers that less are being stolen and what few abnadonments there are have tapered off to almost nothing. Ony 196 orphans in Chongqing the largest city in China is fantastic. When I visited in 2004 there were over 600 kids in one orphanage. I am glad they all have homes now. When my daughters are old enough I will try to find their parents in China. They already suspect they were either bought or stolen. I will wait until they understand better to let them know they might have been.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-11014962763060776202009-09-08T09:46:41.632-07:002009-09-08T09:46:41.632-07:00Comment #1: I doubt the Zhenyuan story will have ...Comment #1: I doubt the Zhenyuan story will have much of an impact at all, for the following reasons. First, no action was seriously taken against the Family Planning officials involved, showing that the Chinese government didn't find the abuses serious. Although the government issued statements that officials had been "demoted" and "reprimanded", in fact all of the participants are still in their same jobs. Nothing really happened.<br /><br />Second, Zhenyuan hasn't been submitting any significant numbers of children for a few years. The last submissions were for seven children in early 2007. No children were submitted in 2008, and so far only three children have been submitted in 2009. <br /><br />Thus, I don't see Zhenyuan or its story having any impact on adoptions from Guizhou.<br /><br />Comment #2: My children obviously hear a lot more about adoption, orphanages, etc., than most children. Few families know for certain how their child came into the orphanage, who the birth family was, etc. Even the most recent story from Luoyang is filled with sub-stories that cloud what actually happened. My intent is to simply communicate that uncertainty to my children -- I don't know. My youngest daughter comes from Luoyang, an orphanage for which there are many questions. When she is old enough to ask those questions, I will give her as much as I know. But at the end of the day most families don't have easy access to the circumstances behind their child's finding. Our Birth Family Report is specifically designed to bring actual data to these kind of questions.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-70665742765008559512009-09-08T09:11:15.342-07:002009-09-08T09:11:15.342-07:00Brian -
How do you reconcile all this informatio...Brian - <br /><br />How do you reconcile all this information (about unethical practices and such) with raising your adopted children. What do will you tell them when they are old enough to understand all this? <br /><br />I am currently grappling with this. My child is home now. However, I know so much more now about IA than I did when I started the process. I might've chosen a different route to parenthood if I'd known all this. Not that I would ever change the fact that my child is here now - love her dearly.<br /><br />Just not sure how those of us who have adopted are supposed to reconcile all this information after we have participated in the system. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.<br /><br />-JAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-67204289001618447572009-09-08T05:01:46.906-07:002009-09-08T05:01:46.906-07:00I see that Guizhou province is one of the province...I see that Guizhou province is one of the provinces that had an increased number of submissions from 2008 to 2009, and an alarmingly higher number of boy submissions from 2008 to 2009. How do you predict the Zhenyuan story will affect this trend? Do you expect Guizhou's numbers to start to plummet for the second half of 2009?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com