tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post7178825662477839249..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: The Myth of the Mourning BirthmotherResearch-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-68711568150421765382009-10-25T03:48:13.453-07:002009-10-25T03:48:13.453-07:00I agree with some of the posters. An American male...I agree with some of the posters. An American male proposes a theory about hundreds of thousands of Chinese women based on interviews with just two of them.<br />As far as we can tell, he is not an academic, nor a trained and accredited sociologist or psychologist. I take it he does not speak any of the Chinese languages, and, crucially, he has never given birth.<br />Add to the mix the fact that he is an adoptive parent and therefore possibly partisan.<br />He is of course entitled to his opinion based on those two interviews. However, who was the translator? Can he trust that it was an accurate translation? What circumstances were the women interviewed in? Were they comfortable and secure? I can only imagine how upsetting and intrusive it was for them. And I'm sure that he would accept that such interviews with American women who had lost children to adoption would have been conducted under very different conditions. <br />I note that the stories of Korean women who had lost their children to adoption in the aftermath of the Korean-American war are beginning to emerge. <br />Perhaps your posters would also be interested in learning about the Irish children who were adopted by Americans from the 1940s up until the 1970s? Their stories are told in "Banished Babies" by Mike Milotte. The book is currently out of print but some copies are available on Amazon.com.<br />What will be apparent to the reader is that poverty, societal disapproval and absence of social supports are the underlying reasons behind adoption throughout the world. It is a fallacy to suppose that women willingly give up their children to strangers on a whim or because of cold indifference.<br />And just to show that I'm conscious of possible bias, I can assure your posters that Mike Milotte is an experienced researcher and journalist who has no connection with adoption whatsoever!<br />I suppose that what surprised me most about all the postings was the almost complete lack of any real "hard" information about the underlying economic factors in China which is driving foreign adoption.<br />Foreigners pay a fee to the Chinese government for each child they adopt.<br />The "one child policy" is not as simple as it sounds.(And of course there are some areas where more than one child is allowed per family). <br />Every pregnancy has to be "approved" by the local Communist Party Cadre. To keep an "unapproved" child elicits a fine which is equivalent to the cost of a house. Further increased charges are imposed for that "extra" child's education and healthcare etc. <br />The reason the boy is preferred as that one child is that there is no pension provision whatsoever in China. Boys are expected to financially support their aged parents, whereas girls, upon marriage, are expected to support their husband's elderly parents.<br />And regarding "abandonment" - there is a fine payable if a child is given directly to an orphanage. That is why the child's "abandonment" is planned and people informed as to where she may be found.<br />To close, I hope that all would join with me in wishing fervently that we could begin to hear and read the uncensored voices of all the poor women throughout the world who have been denied the joy of keeping and rearing their own children purely because of the accident of geography.<br />Wiskia,<br />Ireland.wiskiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17946154530238946253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-12426440870887889052009-09-20T14:46:17.576-07:002009-09-20T14:46:17.576-07:00Yes, it is a very sad article. Readers can find i...Yes, it is a very sad article. Readers can find it here:<br /><br />http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fg-china-adopt20-2009sep20,0,401407.story?page=1<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-85156556336924418942009-09-20T05:09:35.391-07:002009-09-20T05:09:35.391-07:00Have you read the LA Times article on the forced c...Have you read the LA Times article on the forced confiscation of babies in rural areas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-52962422697834010082009-08-26T13:54:50.641-07:002009-08-26T13:54:50.641-07:00Brian,
I find this piece uncomfortable judgmental...Brian,<br /><br />I find this piece uncomfortable judgmental and not at all reflective of The piece quoted - the interview with two mothers, which states:<br /><br />How often does each of them think about their “lost daughter”? The answer from both was immediate and identical: every day. Both showed in their faces the regret and shame they felt for what they had been forced to do – perhaps not forced in any literal sense, but in a cultural one. Out of respect for their elders, both of these women and their husbands felt they could not fight the pressure of their parents.<br /><br /><br />When we are cut, we all bleed. When someone dies we all mourn and grieve - but in our own way.<br /><br />“This magnitude of loss is, to say the least, difficult for her to overcome. Sometimes the best a birthmother can do is to remain in denial and numbness for the rest of her adult life, unconsciously encumbered by her silent sorrow.” Davidson, Michelene K., 1994. “Healing the Birthmother's Silent Sorrow, Family Systems <br />Research and Therapy, Volume 3, (pp. 69-89). Encino, CA : Phillips Graduate Institute. <br /><br /><br />This is a universal truth and to think otherwise is to do a tremendous disservice to mothers who have experienced childbirth losses of any kind.<br /><br />It might make adoptive parents feel less guilt-ridden, but it is not truth and very unkind and cruel. these women are not cold stones manufacturing babies for americans to adopt. They are victims of social pressure as were millions of women within the US in prior decades.AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-18143104575411158792009-07-18T08:08:47.733-07:002009-07-18T08:08:47.733-07:00Brian, I just read this whole thread through again...Brian, I just read this whole thread through again because I recommended it as reading on another blog. I agree with your premise that emotions are culturally mediated. Jane Liedtke, for example, has pointed out that as Westerners we are often unaware of the extent to which Judeo-Christian values seep into our assumptions about love and forgiveness. As she said so well, there is no forgiveness in the Chinese ethos (and certainly no shaping Judeo-Christian ethic either). There is, however, honour, duty, and saving face--and yes, a great deal of pragmatism and looking towards the future. We forget how different our cultures and ideologies are when we try to assess the actions of the gov't or when we attribute motives to others. <br /><br />Having said that, I wonder if the situation will change at all as the old guard dies off and the belief in the primacy of boys dies off as well. Then it will be the loss of a child, period. And I wonder if the larger pressure of doing the honorable thing--sometimes coerced, as you have pointed out, by the husband's parents--will fade as well and there will be more room for grieving. <br /><br />Culture, tradition, ideology--yes, these things can keep a tight lid on emotions, but they do not destroy them completely. Feelings are just feelings. When these cultural pressures recede you may find much more public acknowledgment of grief. Let's not forget too that in the case of a mother and a child, this is the most powerful biological bond there is. The grief is practically dictated by nature. <br /><br />Still, what I appreciate most about your writing is how nuanced it is. A quality sorely lacking on many adoption sites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-53232786541990562972009-05-30T23:36:23.093-07:002009-05-30T23:36:23.093-07:00Brian, thank you for a thought-provoking essay. I...Brian, thank you for a thought-provoking essay. I agree with the analysis of the anonymous poster whose pro-choice family gave her *only* the choice for abortion, as that was my experience too. As a result of giving up a child through adoption or abortion a woman can either: mourn out of sight of others, bury her grief by moving on, or honestly have simply a feeling of relief. I know I experienced in the first two. The Chinese culture and life pressures may predispose women to move on and hide or not indulge in impractical feelings; this rings true to what I have learned and observed from Chinese friends. Regarding Americans: our culture has a myth that women who have abortions are monstrous and uncaring, when the truth is frequently that they are victims of circumstance and not mature or economically strong enough to either protect and care for a child or they are not emotionally strong enough to watch that child removed forever and given to someone (insert a kick in the gut here) "more deserving." Hence, one young victim is blamed for victimizing another, with no opportunity or acknowledgment or socially approved expression for her deep loss. <br /><br />Regardless of my experience, I feel 1. it is harmful to tell children lies, even pretty ones. So my adoptive daughter will receive the facts and I will plainly admit my beliefs based upon her particular finding circumstances are merely that--my beliefs. Also, 2., her father and I will do all we can if she wants help locating her birth family, but (and this essay helped me realize more clearly) the truth is that the family you actually grow up with is more real than the family you didn't have. So those parents who inflate the facts complete with a birthmother who never moved on with her life and cries every night may regret concocting such stories when their daughter decides she would have preferred her original, more doting, fantasy parents. Making the birth family "more real" with vividly imagined stories can only detract from a healthy approach to an adoptive child's life. Some things will always be unknown and unknowable; that's true of everyone's life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-83512988230498173122009-05-27T07:38:05.875-07:002009-05-27T07:38:05.875-07:00We adopted our daughter in 2004. She is now 5 1/2....We adopted our daughter in 2004. She is now 5 1/2. She has asked why "the lady who had me in her tummy" couldn't take care of me. We tell her the truth and that is that we don't know for sure, but what we do know is that it is God who forms families and that it was His plan that she be part of our family. Understanding that our life has a purpose and that God directs our paths, will give our daughter the foundation of self-worth that comes from knowing that GOD loved her so much to allow her biological family to place her in an area that she would be safely found, so that she would join our family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-87953336408321549722008-10-23T18:00:00.000-07:002008-10-23T18:00:00.000-07:00We did find my daughter's birth mother. Incredibly...We did find my daughter's birth mother. Incredibly lucky and I never, ever imagined this would be possible (only possible due to my friendship with a foreign exchange college student who happened to be from the same city as my child's orphanage). Through a translator (my friend) she said that she had finally "gotten used to" life without her daughter; that she tried not to remember because it was better that way and because it made life too hard otherwise; that this was not something she had a choice about and you had to do what life required; it was finally easier (this was 5 years later). She took the photo album we had brought, gave us a small piece of paper with an address on it and asked through the translator if we would be so kind as to sometimes send photos to this address (it was not her home address) if it wasn't too much trouble. As she walked away, just after she turned her back to us, it looked to me as if she wiped away a few tears. Certainly as we talked she'd sometimes look at the ground and blink a number of times very quickly. I know that I do that when I am trying not to cry. She made a few comments of how my daughter looked so like her brother, so like her grandmother. She spent a lot of time looking at our daughter; She thanked us for being so kind. <BR/><BR/>During this entire conversation she was, from an American point of view, shy, pretty unemotional, and very polite. After she had left the translator told us she had said to him that she never imagined that she would see her daughter again and now she could be "serene" and to please not talk about this meeting to anyone.<BR/><BR/>Sounds very much life grief to me and then some sort of peace that she knew what had happened ultimately to her daughter. I know that when my immediate family members died (siblings when I was younger, parent...) my immediate grief was overwhelming, as the years went by the periods of intense grief were further and further apart (although when they did hit is was almost as bad as if it was yesterday) and that finally I didn't think of these deaths on a daily basis. Life went on, I became happy again, but when I'd really think about it, I grieved. In fact, here it is almost 30 years after my brother died and I can still sometimes cry over his death. <BR/><BR/>I think that it would take a Chinese researcher talking to a number of birth mothers to find out what was the range of feelings, responses, of a Chinese birth mother abandoning her child. We would need to interpret it in the context of how the Chinese do or do not express emotion, what they do or do not say to strangers... I would hesitate to say that somehow it is easier to abandon your child just because you are Chinese.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-64136596198235654982008-02-11T20:21:00.000-08:002008-02-11T20:21:00.000-08:00It's how they are taught culturally, and it's also...It's how they are taught culturally, and it's also human nature to look forward, to SURVIVE. <BR/><BR/>I don't KNOW anything about giving birth and how it "must feel" to surrender the child. I also don't know what it's like to be desperately afraid of losing my reputation and my family's, of risking tremendous hardship, to just NOT HAVE A CHOICE of whether I can love or not love this child, because loving her will mean devastation for everyone.<BR/><BR/>We just keep putting our cultural projections on this thing called adoption. I get tired of it, and I thank this author for having the nerve to write something that no one else will say. There is nothing that is universally experienced the same way. Surely we don't know all there is to know here either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-37797576657195062772007-03-24T23:31:00.000-07:002007-03-24T23:31:00.000-07:00To the previous poster, I adopted my daughter, and...To the previous poster, I adopted my daughter, and I am her Mother, not an "adopter." The legal papers say so, and the feeling in my heart tells me so. Biology is not the only -- or necessarily in all cases the best-- way to make a family. Unfortunately, as we all know, there are profoundly dysfunctional biological families. I resent being considered as "less than" by people who think biology is what makes a parent.<BR/><BR/>In response to your post, Brian, and to other comments about it-<BR/>I do believe that many birthmothers who have relinquished children have unresolved grief and guilt, regardless of the culture. I can also understand why women relinquish babies for reasons completely personal and possibly incomprehensible to others. I can understand this because of my experience with an abortion I had when I was a teenager. <BR/><BR/>I was taught that having a baby before graduating college amounted to ruining any chance you had in life. Essentially, you would be worthless as a human being. It was a VERY LOUD message. I was educated and raised in a right-to-choose home and neighborhood, and girls didn't have babies that they couldn't take care of--they had abortions. Adoption never even crossed my mind.I felt that I had no choice, I felt very pressured by the messages in my head, and I made the decision in desperation. <BR/>For many years, I felt nothing, then tremendous, pervasive sorrow and guilt. This is why I believe that at least some, if not many, of the birthmothers of our children adopted from China would feel loss, sadness, and guilt, if they didn't shut down, a reaction that is dictated by their culture and cirumstance. <BR/><BR/>My daughter is still young, and we haven't had many birthmother talks yet, but I don't intend to sugar-coat anything, and I won't lie to her. I will tell her that I believe that her birthmother loved her. Why? Simply because most women who carry and give birth to babies love them, probably very much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-34196980036221564502007-03-04T00:55:00.000-08:002007-03-04T00:55:00.000-08:00Something you all might want to watch.I think the ...Something you all might want to watch.<BR/>I think the most important thing that was said here is that the woman was an adopter, not a Mother of that child.<BR/><BR/>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4439761050204972345&q=korean+birth+mothersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-78941690910073451652007-02-14T11:09:00.000-08:002007-02-14T11:09:00.000-08:00SHE FOUND THE GIRL ON THE STREETS SO SHE WAS AN AD...SHE FOUND THE GIRL ON THE STREETS SO SHE WAS AN ADOPTIVE MOTHER.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-66516044344912456332007-02-04T18:56:00.000-08:002007-02-04T18:56:00.000-08:00As the mother of two wonderful daughters from Chin...As the mother of two wonderful daughters from China I read all of these comments and really enjoyed the commonalities and diverse comments and opinions. When it all is said and done, we adoptive parents play a pivotal role in how we address the entire abandonment issue when our children are old enough to ask. The reality is that I will most likely never know the dynamics that went in to the birthparents' decision to sever the parent/child bond. <br /> <br />When my oldest asked "Why didn't my other mommy want me?" I matter of factly replied that I didn't know. I told her what I did know:<br /><br />1. She was placed where someone would find her immediately.<br />2. She was wearing warm clothes and was protected from the environment.<br /><br />She looked at me and said, "OK" and went back to playing with her toys. Later that day I made sure to tell her how much I loved her and that we were all so lucky to have such wonderful people in our family. This honesty has served us well as a family and there is no right or wrong way to talk about the circumstances of my daughters' birth. As parents we must do what feels right for our family and move forward. <br /><br />I am thankful and honored to have such wonderful little girls in my life and feel gratitude and respect for the women whose actions made my family possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-7208068926642451652007-02-04T06:25:00.000-08:002007-02-04T06:25:00.000-08:00Brian presents this article to give us pause in ho...Brian presents this article to give us pause in how we create and talk about our child's birth story. We need to be careful in romanticizing this part of the story for our child and ourselves. It is very clear that time and place will affect how we rationalize decisions. Rewind (or just look around) western culture to a time and place where life asked to make tough decisions and we won't be so quick to pin these attitudes on any one culture.<br /><br />One indulgent point here. For all the "we chose adoption" posters pointing out they didn't face fertility issues. Those of us that have and do face fertility issues recognize at a very personal level that we are building a family that has started with loss for our child, birth parents and adoptive parents (us). I hope that gives us an opportunity to be sensitive about very complicated issues that can't be easily resolved and that it is an identity dialogue that will continue to unfold for all three parties. We also chose adoption too so quit trying to parlay that point into some greater legitimacy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-52678009246812764112007-01-14T09:42:00.000-08:002007-01-14T09:42:00.000-08:00Nichole:
You assert in your original comment that...Nichole:<br /><br />You assert in your original comment that the physical/biological responses of women to childbirth are the same the world over, a point that I don't dispute. Then you shift and assert that emotional responses such as guilt, love, and remorse are universal. They are not. Such emotional responses are learned from one's culture. <br /><br />Remorse is a conditioned response to the breaking of some societal norm. Here is Utah, many people would feel remorse for having to shop on Sunday, a learned response to tehir religious upbringing. I would feel remorse at stealing from another person, but there are many who feel no such remorse. Emotional responses are learned Nichole, and thus not universal.<br /><br />This is particularly applicable when it comes to birthmothers in China. Growing up in a culture that is forward looking, that by ncessity views children in a more utilitarian sense, and that is more communallly oriented results in a different response to abandoning a child than we are taught to have here in the West. I don't advocate that women in China don't have the natural instinct of child protection or love, simply that they are not conditioned to dwell on abandonment with feelings of remorse or mourning. <br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-9435660565628399852007-01-13T23:24:00.000-08:002007-01-13T23:24:00.000-08:00Let me try again (though not sure why I'm botherin...Let me try again (though not sure why I'm bothering):<br /><br />Quote: "Our emotions are largely a product of our culture."<br /><br />This is flat-out false. Did you even read my comment fully? Researchers have found that humans experience the same emotions, in every culture, around the world.<br /><br />I find it amusing that you're accusing me of being ethnocentric, when in fact, I interpret your post as extremely ethnocentric. You're arguing that Chinese women DON'T feel the same emotions as all other mothers, just because you don't SEE them EXHIBITING those emotions. That is a very, very ethnocentric way to judge a person's emotions--looking at them through your Western eyes, and deciding that you know what they're feeling based on the fact that they don't express what you, as a Westerner, would expect them to.<br /><br />Ironic, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-45809867754072832262007-01-13T07:18:00.000-08:002007-01-13T07:18:00.000-08:00Nichole:
You propose a very ethnocentric idea whe...Nichole:<br /><br />You propose a very ethnocentric idea when you state that ALL women feel the same things. Our emotions are largely a product of our culture. People that are taught to experience "spiritual energy" at a church service experience those emotions, when others not so programmmed look around and see lunacy. Romantic love is largely a product of our Western culture, and many cultures have their marital relationships based on more pragmatic reasons. I would no more state that all women feel romantic love than that all women feel the same emotions to their children. Again let me state that I am not propounding that Chinese women don't feel a bond to their children, or that they don't love their children. I am simply suggeting that it is often a very different emotional bond that we in the West are programmed to experience.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-82149467460147710502007-01-12T21:11:00.000-08:002007-01-12T21:11:00.000-08:00I think that all this talk about culture is misgui...I think that all this talk about culture is misguided.<br /><br />Pregnancy, birth... these are biological (not cultural) processes. <br /><br />And biologically speaking, all humans--no matter our skin tone, eye shape, place of residence, or religion--are pretty much the same.<br /><br />Do you know... there have been studies on facial expressions cross-culturally... and they all mean the same thing in every culture? <br /><br />This points to the idea that fundamentally, at a bio/psychological level, we are all MUCH more alike than we are different.<br /><br />And... as birth is a biological and psychological process... I think the safest assumption would be that Chinese birth mothers (first mothers) feel all the same things first moms from around the world do. <br /><br />Giving birth changes you, at a very physical level. Your body primes you to nurture a child. And I am not just talking about milk coming in... but psychologically, at a brain-chemistry level... a woman's body is prepped, through pregnancy, to become nurturing and protecting of her offspring. <br /><br />That cannot be a cultural phenomenon. If it were... and if the Chinese were so easily able to squelch the natural protective instinct of their children... how could they be here, today? They are the largest population on earth. Evolutionarily speaking, if they lacked the fierce protective emotions for their children (which is what you imply, by suggesting they can so easily "get over" the relinquishment of their children), how could that be possible?<br /><br />No. You are wrong, Brian. I would you bet you my house, my job, my cars, my savings account. You are simply...wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-54885018386487063212007-01-01T06:30:00.000-08:002007-01-01T06:30:00.000-08:00I ran across "The Myth of the Mourning Birthmothe...I ran across "The Myth of the Mourning Birthmother" on another site, and it reminded me of a friend's situation. His wife is from Taiwan. After she gave birth to three boys, she was told it would be dangerous for her to be pregnant again. Because she and my friend wanted a girl, her sister in Taiwan (they were living in the US by this time) gave her baby daughter to them to adopt. It was not for economic reasons, as the family is upper middle class. It occured about 30 years ago now, and she has apparently always been aware of the situation. Having three children myself I cannot fathom giving one of them up, but my friend has always implied that it was a normal thing in Chinese culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-41246814298024718702006-12-30T23:42:00.000-08:002006-12-30T23:42:00.000-08:00I read the entire blog on The Myth of the Mourning...I read the entire blog on The Myth of the Mourning Birthmother with keen interest, as I’ve been recently theorizing on my daughter’s biological family. Because she was abandoned at an elementary school at 3-weeks of age with two brand new outfits and a note, most would assume this abandonment was reluctant. But I can’t help but wonder am I trying to write a myth or just prepare myself for my daughter’s questions down the road? <br /><br />Maybe a bit of both: Brian’s article and the blog have made me slow down…there is ice on the road ahead and I need to proceed with caution, for my daughter’s sake.<br /><br />My daughter is only two years old but I need to prepare myself as the questions are on the horizon and will I be ready? I hope my responses are honest. I don’t want to glorify or demonize. <br /><br />So even in this exercise, I’m tempering my emotional response for the sake of my daughter’s reality. And the flipside of the same coin, in China, during their pregnancy, I think a lot of the birth mother’s prepare themselves for possible disappointment. At birth they may have already detached from this child as an emotional self-protection tactic; A sort of prepare-for-the-worst yet hope-for-the-best scenario.<br /><br />I want to protect my daughter from unrealistic expectations yet keep her self-esteem healthy. Her birth mother wanted to protect her own familial circumstances (whatever they were). And to move on with life, wouldn’t the healthiest route be to stop dwelling on the bundle left at the gate? <br /><br />However, the circumstances in China are probably much more varied than we think. I suspect my daughter may have an older sibling and was abandoned for that reason. Should I keep that thought to myself? If she has an older sibling, could that sibling be a girl? If she was a boy would she have been abandoned? Maybe we will never know… But maybe my daughter will go searching for answers such as these. I will do the best I can to temper her expectations (much like her birth mother might of done) but I hope to support her endeavors the best I can.<br /><br />RoseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-42188860049099898432006-12-29T14:44:00.000-08:002006-12-29T14:44:00.000-08:00You say that you would not give up your 4 year old...You say that you would not give up your 4 year old for a woman. Have you ever been a woman with little means for income and needed assistance from a male figure in your life? Your circumstances are too different for you to project your emotions onto a woman. I am a woman and I live in a comfortable house in the US, sitting in the "cat bird seat" I could easily pass judgement on her, but it would be a skewed assessment.Doug and Terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710102720227541188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-1667466575767201392006-12-28T08:14:00.000-08:002006-12-28T08:14:00.000-08:00Brian,
Thanks for your article...It certainly giv...Brian,<br />Thanks for your article...It certainly gives food for thought, as does the dialogue it provoked. I think this conversation is important because it is JUST the beginning of starting to get an idea of what it means to be from a different culture. And as you pointed out, in China, as in all cultures, not everyone thinks/feels the same way. Some Chinese people may be more sentimental and hooked on the past than most Westerners, and some Westerners may be more oriented toward the future and more pragmatic than most Chinese. The point is that we can begin to get a sense of what might be the norm in another time/place, but we just don't know what is true of any particular family which gives up a child. <br />Furthermore, I assume that even though there are a lot of girls given up for adoption, that the vast majority of families keep their girls even if they were hoping for a boy. So, we are not just looking at the way the Chinese think/feel, but specifically people who have chosen to give children up for adoption. <br />I also believe that what we feel is very determined by what we are taught/expected to feel. I eat a lot of meat but I would probably become a vegetarian if I had to go out and kill an animal. Someone who is raised on a cattle farm is much more likely to be much more matter of fact about killing a cow to feed the family...and probably would have an upbringing which keeps them from getting to attached to the animal to begin with. When I, a city kid, moved to the suburbs and started gardening I felt guilty about every plant I pulled up, until I realized that I needed to kill some of the plants to make room for others to thrive.<br /><br />I think it is nearly impossible to fully understand how another person's culture and circumstances have shaped their emotions, and that you are completely right in pointing that out. And as painful as it is, I think you are really correct that we don't know what damage we might be doing by pretending to know and telling the story we'd like to believe as if it were true.<br />Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and observations in such an honest way!<br />DeniseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-63144595188478315132006-12-24T10:50:00.000-08:002006-12-24T10:50:00.000-08:00I agree with pretty much everything said in the pr...I agree with pretty much everything said in the previous post. <br /><br />First and foremost we "chose" to adopt. It was a first choice way for my husband and I to create our family. Our choice was not the destination at the end of the road of fertility efforts that lead many into adoption. Our daughters will know this was how we knew we wanted to create a family.<br /><br />The only thing that seems odd in the previous post is the "Western" term of Nannies. Whether girls from China were fostered or in an orphanage, from what we've learned there were usually (guessing) five or so children to every care-taker.<br /><br />The Western term illustrates (to me) there is no way we can put ourselves in this distant culture and truly understand all that is involved with the emtions when it comes to providing a future for their children by abandoning them.<br /><br />For certain the girls experienced some type of caring/ nuturing; well at least in our match groups as with minimal challenges they seemed to be open to affection and love from their new parents.<br /><br />Thank you for letting me post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-30102978240075038692006-12-22T22:20:00.000-08:002006-12-22T22:20:00.000-08:00Wow,
so much to say... first, WE ARE NOT ALL INFER...Wow,<br />so much to say... first, WE ARE NOT ALL INFERTILE as was posted earlier. Some of us CHOSE adoption!<br />I feel better now. I certainly feel for my friends that went down the invitro, failed adoption, miscarriage route, but it can be tiring to have people look at you with those puppydog eyes when they see that we ar caucasian and our daughter is CHinese. We COULD HAVE HAD a child but felt like "Why bring another one in when there are so many waiting"<br /><br />on to the more emotional issues...Since NONE of us can KNOW what is in a Chinese Birthmoms mind nor heart, we are all guessing. All be it some of us have more insight than others. You would have to be a woman, a birthmom, and have abandoned (left to be found) a child in CHina. Since this is obviously NOT the case, we all have to fill in the blanks a bit. One of the things we DO know, is that the birthmother could have killed her girl child. From what I hear, that is not too hard to have done by a midwife or someone else. so, I CAN say that my daughters birth mom loved her enough to GVE HER LIFE. Isn't there some risk involved in leaving her to be found? SO, isn't that some kind of love to take a chance? Did she not 'love' her when she was in the womb? True, she probably wanted a boy for societal reasons but she probably loved her none the less. (Brian didn't you write about how the birthmoms didn't really care if it was a boy or a girl, that it was the paternal grandparents who put the pressure on surrendering the girls infavor of boys?)<br />I do 'think' that the mother had some feeling of loss. How could she not? It may have been her only choice, it may have been forced upon her, it may even have been HER choice. That still does not mean that there wasn't any loss. Many women that I know that chose to make an adoption plan for their children still feel a sense of loss and in this country it is much more of a choice than in CHina. The women I know who have had abortions still feel a sense of loss even if the never ever talk about it or try to convince themselves that they did the right thing.<br />Having grown up around Asians and having many Asian friends, many of whom are first generation, I do not think that you can 'judge a book by it's cover' so to speak. How can we know what is going on below the surface? <br />THe loss may be manifested differently or pushed down, or not felt as deeply as it might be here, in this culture. But there is loss on the part of the birthmother none the less.<br />So, what do I tell my daghter? I AGREE not to make up a terribly elaborate story nor pretend to KNOW. I tell her what I BELIEVE to be true. I BELIEVE her birthmother loved her and was unable to raise her and I BELIEVE that her foster family and nannies took very good care of her. When questions arise in the future I can only say what I believe to be true. Hopefully one day I will be able to meet her birthfamily and have a better idea. Hopefully through DNA testing and a change in CHina's attitude down the road, we will all know with a bit more certainty.<br />Although I don't agree with many of your conclusions on this one Brian, I still love you and appreciate what you do!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-57351849485726197972006-12-22T17:47:00.000-08:002006-12-22T17:47:00.000-08:00This is a touchy subject for us sentimental, finan...This is a touchy subject for us sentimental, financially comfortable Americans!<br /><br />But it happens right here in the US. I should know. I myself was adopted. My birth mother was a college student. She emphatically told the doctor who arranged the adoption that she wanted nothing to do with me ever. I found her in 1992 and wrote her a letter and she replied and politely asked me to have nothing to do with her. <br /><br />I feel we are doing our children a great disservice if we paint a rosy picture of a mother who is mourning deeply and eagerly awaiting a reunion. For I've seen the end of this road, and it was a hard concrete surface slammed against my head.carolinagirl79https://www.blogger.com/profile/06284212448110505029noreply@blogger.com