tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post4705385750781012411..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: Adopting Special Needs ChildrenResearch-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-16048005628756902032008-03-06T20:05:00.000-08:002008-03-06T20:05:00.000-08:00I just want to thank you for this and your other p...I just want to thank you for this and your other posts. <BR/><BR/>We are very early in this process, still shoosing countries and agancies et al. I've just learned the terms "SN and NSN". Tha't how just getting started we are. ut you have given me a lot to think about, and the woman who shared her story even more. There are needs we couldn't cope with, but otherw where we could make a real difference in a child's life.<BR/><BR/>No matter what we decide, thanks.Lola Granolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06344567842844238833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-7570478195346659062008-01-27T23:53:00.000-08:002008-01-27T23:53:00.000-08:00What a sweet comment. Thank you. Maybe we will see...What a sweet comment. Thank you. Maybe we will see you in Guangzhou! I pray your little boy will be a great blessing to you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-33684371971279897612008-01-23T08:43:00.000-08:002008-01-23T08:43:00.000-08:00I just wanted to say, I loved that little girl. W...I just wanted to say, I loved that little girl. We were one of the 50families who called about her, but unlike you, we did not petition. I am glad to see she found a wonderful family. She will be a blessing to your family. I hope you travel soon. We just received another SN referral for our second cleft l/p boy. I wish you speedy travel. Maybe, we will see you in GZ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-42125653525452871382008-01-23T05:47:00.000-08:002008-01-23T05:47:00.000-08:00There are an estimated 1,500 orphanages in China, ...There are an estimated 1,500 orphanages in China, so about 1,000 do domestic adoptions only. These are generally very small facilities. <BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-20197734384286107622008-01-22T21:44:00.000-08:002008-01-22T21:44:00.000-08:00Brian,Could you tell me how many orphanages in Chi...Brian,<BR/>Could you tell me how many orphanages in China only adopt domestically, and if there area any that don't adopt out at all?Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12560337640607116604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-20575322505979976752008-01-22T04:55:00.000-08:002008-01-22T04:55:00.000-08:00BrianGiven a possible global recession, with Chna ...Brian<BR/><BR/>Given a possible global recession, with Chna paticularly exposed, do you think there could be a need for the large back log of international parents?<BR/><BR/>AndyAndyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762636570805475764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-69182139313931576642008-01-19T16:09:00.000-08:002008-01-19T16:09:00.000-08:00I didn't say "will have to", rather I said "will"....I didn't say "will have to", rather I said "will". I believe China is very close to ending her NSN program.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-51863524058876848952008-01-19T15:32:00.000-08:002008-01-19T15:32:00.000-08:00BrianCan you please clarify this blurb from the 12...Brian<BR/><BR/>Can you please clarify this blurb from the 12/22/07 Ottowa Citizen<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Stuy predicts by the end of 2008, China will have to stop the adoption of healthy children."<BR/><BR/>Thanks<BR/><BR/>AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-78258313574764853472008-01-18T07:04:00.000-08:002008-01-18T07:04:00.000-08:00Another thought on waiting child adoptions: The b...Another thought on waiting child adoptions: The biggest two things the CCAA could do to incent more SN adoptions are:<BR/><BR/>1. To reduce the orphanage donation for these adoptions, and perhaps some of the other fees as well.<BR/><BR/>2. To remove some of the restrictions placed on the program in May 2007 - particularly the restriction that inhibits single parents from adoption.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-20316888411760623852008-01-18T06:57:00.000-08:002008-01-18T06:57:00.000-08:00I absolutely loved this article, Brian!! I have t...I absolutely loved this article, Brian!! I have three daughters from China - one NSN infant adoption, and two "waiting child" adoptions. While I have no regrets about adopting my "healthy baby girl," who is a treasure, I cannot even tell you how much joy my two SN children have brought into my life. I also believe you are correct in your assumption that there is no longer a need for an NSN program, but that there are so many children who still wait for families because of medical conditions that are easily treatable in the U.S., or simply because they are older.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-56248568306877801062008-01-17T14:09:00.000-08:002008-01-17T14:09:00.000-08:00We adopted three children from China with special ...We adopted three children from China with special needs years ago. Back then the special needs program was basically unheard of and the process was much different than it is today. Most folks were asking us why we would do such a thing when we could adopt healthy children. I couldn't believe the insensitive comments that some idiots made to us. Our children's stated health issues have been the least of our problems. They had many other issues we were totally unaware of, but so have many nsn children! However, if we did it all again we'd go the same route as before.<BR/>Our children were waiting for us to come and get them and we did! I wish China had made more of an effort to get the special needs children adopted out all along. Foster care in China has been helpful in reducing the number of children suffering the effects of institutionalization, but there's more that could and should be done.<BR/>All children deserve a home and I wish more folks would realize that children with special needs are no less of a child than any other. They just wait longer and that trend needs to stop. A child shouldn't wait longer for a family because she/he was born with or without something that was beyond her/his control. The gov't of China should control and monitor the children released for adoption and ensure that all children have an equal chance at finding a family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-13429006854244862912008-01-16T06:53:00.000-08:002008-01-16T06:53:00.000-08:00I don't share your cynicism regarding China's abil...I don't share your cynicism regarding China's ability to control information. I have many individuals that feed me information, and I can assure you they are not feeding Chinese propaganda. Obviously when we first meet a director at an orphanage, they speak the party line, there is no denying that. But we know the party line -- we have heard it thousands of times. After a while, and as the relationship deepens, the guards come down and the true facts emerge. <BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-32101880925200722272008-01-16T06:44:00.000-08:002008-01-16T06:44:00.000-08:00Although I at first was extremely angry with your ...Although I at first was extremely angry with your statement- I can see that it would be highly beneficial to both China and US families to switch to all SN adoption program. I adopted last August a little girl with a small minor SN (would not qualify for assistance here). I met her foster family and I can tell you for sure -if they could have adopted this little girl, they would have- But they were not allowed to even consider it- based on the rule of Foster Care and her orphanage. For anyone who thinks this issue is simple- well it isn't - I am gripped with the knowledge that my daughter could have had a perfectly wonderful life in China (her previous home) with a very loving family - If the current Chinese system changed to favor domestic adoption. Our family feels very fortunate to have our daughter- but at some point I will share this information with her. My greatest hope is that our daughter will grow up with a willingness to help others and to share her stories to the benefit of others. If I had never met her foster Mom- I may have gone through life wondering if they wanted to keep her- I know this may be difficult for those of you waiting- But I really believe China has the ability to domestic adopt out every single healthy infant and probably some with special needs too. It is sad to think financial constraints and policy are the reason we have our daughter, but I am grateful to know I can share her life with her foster mom who we stay in touch with. <BR/>I also think we need to be careful - the Chinese Govt will lie about orphan numbers, orphanage conditions, current social problems (that they may culturally feel are not social problems)and the fact that they make decisions based on if the publicity of these things are embarrassing to them. We need to be careful that we are not used by their government to promote Propaganda- if you are in China doing RESEARCH- I am absolutely positive the Govt KNOWS it. This is not the same as doing RESEARCH here- You are naive to think that your answers to questions were not rehearsed by Orphanage directors that were told how to answer such questions when your Chinese friend called. China is very aware of you and your thoughts and this blog- It is monitored by their government. That makes all of your research suspect as being influenced by the government of China. China has no intention of becoming a Democracy or having freedom of speech, religion, and decreasing prejudices based on ethnicity and color. It is possible that the Chinese government has used you to promote their adoption policy changes. I think that you need to consider this as you do your research. The government is very detail oriented and things do not easily slip by them. <BR/>All in all- I appreciate that I can state my opinion and thank you for that opportunity. <BR/>Although I know my daughter was loved in China- I feel she will have a much better life here - because she can choose her own future for everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-11425841488661864992008-01-11T08:11:00.000-08:002008-01-11T08:11:00.000-08:00I wanted to be offended and totally disagree with ...I wanted to be offended and totally disagree with this blog post. Instead it's thought-provoking. I won't say I agree entirely, but I also wasn't able to summon the outrage that I wanted to have when I began reading. I appreciate having many different sides to IA presented. It's the only way to begin a true education.<BR/><BR/>Disclosure that may show my biases: I'm already adopting a child called "SN."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-2556103808032289952008-01-09T11:10:00.000-08:002008-01-09T11:10:00.000-08:00If NSN adoption is no longer needed in China, why ...If NSN adoption is no longer needed in China, why don't they just stop it, and do solely SN adoptions? Sure would be less painful than waiting forever for a child that truly could be adopted in China. Rip off the bandaid now. Of course, if it were easier to adopt SN that would be nice to - at the point I am at, its not an option (due to logging in with an agency that has no SN children, we meet all other qualifications).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-76668144653648318212007-12-27T17:21:00.000-08:002007-12-27T17:21:00.000-08:00Thank you Brian for drawing attention to the sn ki...Thank you Brian for drawing attention to the sn kids of China. It breaks my heart to hear that international adoptions in China are slowing to a near halt because there are still so many kids in need. Just a year and a half ago I toured an orphanage that houses primarily special needs kids while I was adopting my cl/cp daughter. There were 60 babies there that day. My "healthy" Chinese child has more special needs than my sn child-folks should quit deluding themselves. I'd rather take on the problems I know than ones I don't. The special needs program needs attention.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-35371631442843350612007-12-22T20:57:00.000-08:002007-12-22T20:57:00.000-08:00I think the major difference between the two count...I think the major difference between the two countries is that the trafficking in China seems to be limited to children willingly given up by their BPs. So far, there has been no evidence that kids are kidnapped and trafficked for adoption. I'm not saying to doesn't happen, simply that I have seen no direct evidence that it has happened. Should such evidence appear, I believe that that U.S. Government would take the appropriate steps.<BR/><BR/>But it is difficult. The Hunan story provides a case study on just how hard it is to prove such charges. The problem in Hunan was widely known, and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because those involved felt it was not morally wrong. Once the story broke INTERNATIONALLY, China went through a big show of "investigating" the adoptions, and declaring to every government that none of the trafficked children had been adopted (I am using the common understanding of the Chinese Government's declarations, not what they actually said). In fact, while their statements did NOT state that no trafficked children had been adopted internationally, clearly hundreds of trafficked children were adopted. But everyone involved -- the Chinese, the agencies, and the adoptive families were anxious for Hunan to go away, and did nothing to encourage further investigation.<BR/><BR/>Had more investigation been done, it would have been seen that the culture in Hunan is symptomatic of a cultural paradigm that permeates the adoption program there. Children are viewed as a commodity to be cared for and adopted for significant sums of money. "Rewards" are offered to draw more children into the orphanage system. Employees are encouraged to form relationships with hospital workers and others that might have access to children. We might legally state that these children are given up, but when the government or a middle-man offers a poor rural family 3,000 yuan for a child, many "give up" children who wouldn't otherwise. <BR/><BR/>Time will tell is this problem creates another "Hunan scandal", but the commodity-driven attitudes regarding China's orphans provides the perfect environment for abuse.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-34181580130848483112007-12-22T20:35:00.000-08:002007-12-22T20:35:00.000-08:00I have a 4 year old daughter adopted from China 3....I have a 4 year old daughter adopted from China 3.5 years ago and a newly adopted daughter from Vietnam. In fact, I was in Vietnam this past October/November during the big "investigation" situation. Over 20 NOIDs were issued because of these investigations. <BR/><BR/>The US Embassy claims that there is baby trafficking occuring in some Vietnamse provinces. Because of this belief they denied several visas just on the thought that trafficking had occured but with no evidence to support their beliefs.<BR/><BR/>My question to you is why would the US crack down on this in Vietnam but turn a blind eye to it in China? Don't get me wrong, I am not stating I don't believe your statements! In fact, I believe it is happening in both countries. I just don't see why they are treating the two countries so differently.<BR/><BR/>BTW, thank you so much for your blog!Denise Grover Swankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08089120954470675439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-41748440070883394202007-12-21T19:43:00.000-08:002007-12-21T19:43:00.000-08:00The trend before the Hunan story broke was to long...The trend before the Hunan story broke was to longer wait times, but at a slow rate. The Hunan stoppage from December 2005 to April 2006 was like a large log falling into the river: It quickly backed up the flow of referrals. Wait times increased from about 210 days in October 2005 to almost 350 days by April 2006.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that several factors play a role at this point. While I expected wait times to fall once Hunan came back on line in April 2006 (actually September when referrals began again), it seems the impact has been minimal. <BR/><BR/>Increasing demand from international families also play a big role. It would be interesting to chart the submissions from the various orphanages from January 2005 through now and see if Hunan truly had an impact on submission rates. Additionally, it would be interesting to chart dossier submissions to see the pattern of submissions over that same period. <BR/><BR/>With those two components, perhaps the reasons for the increasing wait times would become clearer.<BR/><BR/>Brian<BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-87597716339699398662007-12-21T16:44:00.000-08:002007-12-21T16:44:00.000-08:00I understand intellectually why there are fewer NS...I understand intellectually why there are fewer NSN children available than there were when I adopted my own children six and four years ago, respectively - simply, fewer NSN children are abandoned, and there are increased opporturtunies for domestic adoption. However, I do not understand why the slowdown was so ABRUPT after the Hunan scandal; that is, why was the slowdown not a bit less abrupt). Do you think it was because the scandal forced China to start referring more children for domestic adoption, or was it because it forced China to limit its IA program, or was there perhaps another reason entirely why the sudden slowdown occurred?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-75527841637947056172007-12-20T19:44:00.000-08:002007-12-20T19:44:00.000-08:00The answer will vary from orphanage to orphanage. ...The answer will vary from orphanage to orphanage. Much more about this subject will be discussed in future articles.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-38403050368982155672007-12-20T19:13:00.000-08:002007-12-20T19:13:00.000-08:00Brian, do you know approximately when orphanages s...Brian, do you know approximately when orphanages started "baby purchasing"? Know it must be after 1995 and before 2005, but when did the tide turn?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-63749208545980971142007-12-20T16:46:00.000-08:002007-12-20T16:46:00.000-08:00I still believe that there is a lot of mystery sur...I still believe that there is a lot of mystery surrounding the Hunan scandal. I've heard from different sources, and there is a lot of speculation (much of it logical); but there remains much we don't know. We are making logical leaps, but they remain leaps without firm facts behind them, in my opinion.<BR/>Thanks for sharing your thoughts. However, I believe the scandal is more complicated than what I originally heard. It sure has given me much to ponder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-21416450975305349732007-12-19T19:45:00.000-08:002007-12-19T19:45:00.000-08:00The Hunan scandal began as a recruitment program i...The Hunan scandal began as a recruitment program instigated by the orphanage directors to increase the number of children coming into their orphanages. The directors based performance compensation on how many babies each employee located. Employees were encouraged to make contact in hospitals, schools, etc. to locate families that MIGHT be interested in giving up their child. It was this recruitment and compensation program that resulted in the Guangdong connection being made.<BR/><BR/>At first, the traffickers received 200-300 yuan for each child, but as word got out about the steady stream of children available from this ring, other orphanages began to compete for the children, pushing the price to 2,500-3,000 yuan by the time the story broke.<BR/><BR/>You can look at is as a way to "keep the children off the street", or believe that these kids would have ended up in orphanages anyway, but that is patently false. The numbers of children adopted out by these orphanages increased annually, just like the adoption numbers of orphanages with substantial "reward" programs are increasing today. <BR/><BR/>The problem with Hunan was not that the directors were caught purchasing kids, but that it was publicized. China's little secret is that baby purchasing has been done for years, and continues today. It is widely known to everyone in the adoption community in China. And it is done for a very basic reason: to increase the numbers of children available for adoption.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-36569746301949254502007-12-19T16:00:00.000-08:002007-12-19T16:00:00.000-08:00You state that: "3) Six orphanage directors in Hun...You state that: "3) Six orphanage directors in Hunan purchased babies from traffickers for years simply to feed the international adoption program." I am sure people did this to make money, but we don't know if there were also motives to help parents abandon their children safely (e.g. not leave them on a sidewalk but transport them safely to a SWI) or to help the children already in the SWIs by providing extra funding for basic living expenses through adoption fees. Yes, the upshot was that babies were sent to Hunan SWIs instead of other SWIs (which may have made no difference in the overall IA numbers), and many were adopted internationally. Surely, IA funding was a huge part of the equation, but if they could get that money from domestic adoption (since you state that Chinese families are having to pay a lot to adopt, too) or if the money would have come from IA but gone to a different SWI, then feeding the IA program isn't the sole explanation for or outcome of this scandal. The children involved in this scandal still needed families no matter if they were domestic or international or through Hunan SWIs or Guangdong SWIs. The whole matter is murky at best.<BR/>I'm not disputing that IA brings huge financial incentives, only that the Hunan scandal doesn't tell us anything concrete, really. We can only speculate on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com