tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post3878997312171637299..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: Trends of Abandonments in ChinaResearch-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-60541673852772629822016-02-15T05:54:25.604-08:002016-02-15T05:54:25.604-08:00I have been adopted from from the hunan providence...I have been adopted from from the hunan providence. I'm still looking for my birth parents. After reading this article I wondered if I was abandoned. My adoptive parents said they have no info about my birth parents. I was disappointed,because I wanted to know why I was at the orphanage. It also stresses me out that I don't know my real birthday or age. I have done many test and it said I was around the age of 12. But that didn't help me out to my age one little bit. For all I know I could be nine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-5560760873190719732007-10-14T14:08:00.000-07:002007-10-14T14:08:00.000-07:00Yes, the domestic adoptions are placed in a local ...Yes, the domestic adoptions are placed in a local paper in Guangzhou, while the international ads are placed in a Provincial paper.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-73358994834133180392007-10-14T14:06:00.000-07:002007-10-14T14:06:00.000-07:00Thanks - appreciate that! Is that how you determi...Thanks - appreciate that! Is that how you determined the number of int'l and domestic adoptions for the Guangzhou SWI, by the respective paper?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-54517910718746075002007-10-14T09:49:00.000-07:002007-10-14T09:49:00.000-07:00The finding ads for international adoptions are al...The finding ads for international adoptions are almost always published in different papers than the domestic ones.<BR/><BR/>In the rare cases when they are published in the same paper, the issuing authority is the orphanage for international, and the Civil Affairs Bureau for domestic.<BR/><BR/>Thus, it is fairly easy to break them apart.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-74110506059940403722007-10-14T09:20:00.000-07:002007-10-14T09:20:00.000-07:00I am confused, Brian. You say, "A finding ad is p...I am confused, Brian. <BR/><BR/>You say, "A finding ad is published for every child adopted in China, whether domestically or internationally. " If that is so, and it certainly appears to be, then how are you able to separate out with such certainty the humber of files submitted for international adoption?<BR/><BR/>In other words, your posts often confidently assert numbers of children submitted to CCAA, and you sometimes speak as though all those children go into the international queue.<BR/><BR/>From what you've now said, that BOTH int'l and domestic kiddos have finding ads, you cannot (correct spelling, by the way - a bugaboo of mine on this word!) confidently talk about numbers of children available for int'l adoption.<BR/><BR/>Or can you? <BR/><BR/>And if so, how??<BR/><BR/>Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-73277914894616729722007-07-20T15:28:00.000-07:002007-07-20T15:28:00.000-07:00According to the investigative pieces published in...According to the investigative pieces published in China (and published on this blog in English), the following orphanages purchased children from the Duan and Chen trafficking families between 2002 and 2005:<BR/><BR/>Qidong Welfare Center<BR/>Hengyang County Welfare Center<BR/>Hengshan County Welfare Center<BR/>Hengnan County Welfare Center<BR/>Hengdong County Welfare Center<BR/>Changning Municipal Welfare Center<BR/><BR/>It is of course impossible to determine where the children adopted from Qidong, or any orphanage, end up, and few families subscribe to their orphanage newsgroup relative to the total number. <BR/><BR/>One would think that the individuals involved in the Hunan scandal would no longer be in their positions, but as far as I know not a single director has been fired or otherwise held accountable for the actions in this regard. It is my understanding that Jiang Jianhua, director of the Hengyang County orphanage, still serves as its director, although he was convicted last year in the case, and sentenced to jail time.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-28549426972943153652007-07-20T14:09:00.000-07:002007-07-20T14:09:00.000-07:00Hi Brian,Would you mind clarifying your comments a...Hi Brian,<BR/><BR/>Would you mind clarifying your comments about Qidong?<BR/><BR/>You said "3 principal orphanages involved in the trafficking scandal, including Qidong"<BR/><BR/>Yet it was my understanding that the Qidong SWI was NOT implicated in the scandal. <BR/><BR/>I seemed to understand that one of the SWI was Hengyang, which is in Qidong County and that the trial took place at the Qidong County Courthouse.<BR/><BR/>Additionally, you wrote that in 2000, Qidong submitted 30 files to CCAA and in 2005 they submitted 150 files.<BR/><BR/>I ask for a number of reasons. <BR/><BR/>First, my daughter was adopted from Qidong SWI in 2000 in a group of 5 babies. Later that year another agency facilitated about the same number of babies for adoption.<BR/><BR/>So I wonder where the other 20 babies went? <BR/><BR/>Our list is a very small list and while I understand many families choose not to join their orphanage listserve, I think based on the numbers, the numbers you say were submitted seem to be high.<BR/><BR/>Again, if 150 were submitted from Qidong SWI in 2005, these babies just weren't adopted, as in the past 2 years only about 15 people have joined to say they were adopting from Qidong.<BR/><BR/>I also ask because I travelled to Qidong last year and visited the orphanage, met with the director who facilitated my daughter's adoption, another man who was the director subsequently as well as a few nannies who have been there since 2000.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that if these people had been involved in a trafficking scandal, they wouldn't still be at the orphanage!<BR/><BR/>So, I was just wondering if you had other information directly related to Qidong SWI. The numbers just don't seem to add up.<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much!<BR/>MauraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-79944546054230663822007-07-19T10:30:00.000-07:002007-07-19T10:30:00.000-07:00The long wait is hard on everyone but the atitdude...The long wait is hard on everyone but the atitdude we have will make a big difference in how we deal with it. Our LID is Feb. 15/07 so I know the wait will be long for us. If someone can't deal with the long wait than they should look at other countries for IA. I try to stay positive. Whatever happens was meant to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-23479177747693526632007-07-12T17:20:00.000-07:002007-07-12T17:20:00.000-07:00I read the last post and can only offer that life ...I read the last post and can only offer that life is what happens as you wait for your child and truly nothng should be on "hold."<BR/><BR/>In the past I'm sure I gave a long-winded answer when someone asked me/ us why we adopted from China. The answer is no very easy; how else would we have met our daughter Gianna Wan-Fen.<BR/><BR/>The wait from DTC for refferral was about 7 months the first time round and this second time I'm sure it will total to what will be two years from DTC to having our second daughter in my arms.<BR/><BR/>All told, it will feel like a moment and as I said before, life is what happens in between. I'm certain adopting from China with what seems like the same amount of babies but more people in line is worth it beyond description for all parties involved.<BR/><BR/>Thank you,<BR/>ColleneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-58295320832679988172007-06-27T12:06:00.000-07:002007-06-27T12:06:00.000-07:00I cannot imagine a 2 to 3 year wait for an adoptio...I cannot imagine a 2 to 3 year wait for an adoption and cannot in good faith recommend the China program to anyone interested at this time. Even though we had as good an experience as possible, due to the unknown wait times i would havws to say don do it. <BR/><BR/>People have to keep going on with life and not put their lives on hold or their marriage and life will suffer.<BR/><BR/>At some point the CCAA and the US adoption agencies are really going to have to come clean on the supply / demand issue. How did the CCAA get so blind / backed up with our making the recent requirement changes earlier?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-75747099382039962002007-06-21T08:06:00.000-07:002007-06-21T08:06:00.000-07:00A finding ad is published for every child adopted ...A finding ad is published for every child adopted in China, whether domestically or internationally. The publication of a finding ad gives no evidence to the legality of a child's coming into the orphanage. Thus, the orphanage published finding ads for all of the trafficked children in Hunan, for example.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-75311610626655761112007-06-21T07:58:00.000-07:002007-06-21T07:58:00.000-07:00Brian,would you tell us about what is the percenta...Brian,would you tell us about what is the percentage of chinese children internationally adopted whose finding ad are published?.<BR/>Do you think finding ad can be an evidence of the legality of the procces of one particular adoption?.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-57744574463608565052007-06-14T06:11:00.000-07:002007-06-14T06:11:00.000-07:00It is evident that both decreasing numbers of heal...It is evident that both decreasing numbers of healthy children and increasing IA demand for those children are combining to increase the wait time. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, the CCAA has little latitude to increase the number of available children. Although they continue to add new orphanages to teh program, these bring relatively few additional children. The increased wait time is certainly having its impact on the demand side, as will the new requirements. <BR/><BR/>Although some agencies are speculating that the wait will reach 5 or 6 years, that seems unlikely. After peaking at around 3 years (or slightly less), wait times will slowly return to the 18-24 month range, where they could remain for a while.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-61651184933655876222007-06-14T05:30:00.000-07:002007-06-14T05:30:00.000-07:00Thank you for the data. You have referenced in r...Thank you for the data. <BR/><BR/> <BR/>You have referenced in recent blogs a drop in paper ready available children not evident in the tables above (but much of the data is two years old) - Has the last two years really seen a huge drop in children or has an increased number of prospective parents for the children increased the wait time? Or is it a combination of both? I read somewhere that in Nov 2005 the CCAA received 2,000-3,000 applications and they are just now placing children monthly for only a few days or 1 week based on LID dates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-65547620530467044932007-06-13T14:29:00.000-07:002007-06-13T14:29:00.000-07:00Cathy:I was just in Xiushan late last year, and wa...Cathy:<BR/><BR/>I was just in Xiushan late last year, and was impressed by the director and his staff. Xiushan, like Qianjiang to teh north, both have experienced rapid growth, but in and of itself that doesn't mean something is wrong. The pattern I am seeing is that areas with no orphanages experience fewer abandonments. When word gets out that an orphanage has opened, it seems that abandonments rise dramatically. That could very well be the case in Xiushan.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-60510743038058803762007-06-13T14:24:00.000-07:002007-06-13T14:24:00.000-07:00Hi Brian, when speaking of Chongqing you say "The ...Hi Brian, when speaking of Chongqing you say "The change was sporadic and inconsistent: Fuling’s adoptions dropped 76% (to 135), while Xiushan increased over 600% (to 153)."<BR/><BR/>I adopted from Xiushan and I am curious as to what your feelings are about the amount of babies found in this area now and also about the very generic referrals and repeat finders.<BR/>Does the information point to trafficking?<BR/>In such a remote area where adoptive families never get to visit, is this not a red flag situation?<BR/><BR/>600% and rising based our yahoo group memberships.<BR/>Thanks for all your hard work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-61475242589047536162007-06-11T09:47:00.000-07:002007-06-11T09:47:00.000-07:00"Ever" is a long time, but my hope is that China w..."Ever" is a long time, but my hope is that China will continue to adopt any child that they are unable to adopt domestically. For that reason, I think the China program will be around for a while, because Chinese attitudes and financial abilities make many children found in China unadoptable inside China.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-5257730639358962322007-06-11T09:33:00.000-07:002007-06-11T09:33:00.000-07:00Do you think China will ever close their doors to ...Do you think China will ever close their doors to IA? And if not with few children being placed for IA what will happen to the China Only agencies do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-64055916234426066282007-06-06T12:31:00.000-07:002007-06-06T12:31:00.000-07:00Great site. If you don't mind I like to include i...Great site. If you don't mind I like to include it in my "Other Resources" section on <BR/>http://www.adoptionagencyratings.comnsjoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713002059875771439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-80437401981742617622007-06-04T12:09:00.000-07:002007-06-04T12:09:00.000-07:00Thanks Brian. Your post provides important data a...Thanks Brian. Your post provides important data about the declining numbers of children admitted to Chinese orphanages, especially those orphanages involved in China’s foreign adoption program. <BR/><BR/>Orphanage data may or may not reflect overall abandonment trends, however. Additional recent studies continue to be published that also relate to abandonment by examining birth sex ratios and the variety of cultural, biological, and other factors that might contribute to the “missing girls” in China’s population figures. It’s difficult to learn much from these about the degree to which the wide gaps between male and female births identified through China’s 2000 detailed census may be holding steady, but these types of studies still don't collectively indicate a narrowing of China’s gender gap. This would at least seem to leave the door open on the related question of abandonment. <BR/><BR/>With orphanage figures, even the Chinese government has noted that its state run orphanages address only a comparatively small number of children abandoned. Indeed there is research to suggest that the government policy for directly addressing abandoned children in rural areas is really an informal one, mostly leaving the problem up to villages and families to solve. It was likely a spillover from this inadequate policy that helped to flood orphanages in cities and “county towns” with children for many years. But add to this the domestic market or demand for children spread across provinces that has been discovered by baby traffickers or “intermediaries” and one gets another significant factor that might affect the number of children who today find their way to state run orphanages, this in addition to increasing numbers of even rural families that studies have shown are now interested in domestic adoption—even if only “informal” rural adoption. On the other hand, there are clearly ways in which the gender gap could hold steady and abandonment decrease. For instance one recent study in Anhui Province attributed most of the high 1.5 to 1 male to female gap among a study group there directly to selective abortion, although it’s unclear whether the method used to select families involved in that study could easily have included those who could admit to illegally abandoning children. <BR/><BR/>The abandonment picture still seems a very murky one to me, although the decline in children admitted to orphanages that you point to is encouraging. I hope abandonment is significantly declining; it sure needs to be stamped out altogether. <BR/><BR/>AndyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-91337318855784301682007-06-04T11:10:00.000-07:002007-06-04T11:10:00.000-07:00It would be possible to determine if your group ad...It would be possible to determine if your group adopted the eight files submitted in 2003 (as seems likely). I have never been to that orphanage, so have limited insight into its adoption patterns. The lead-time from the finding ad publication (the first step for international adoption) and actual referral averages 6-8 months. Thus, children in the orphanage in March 2004 may have had ads printed in early 2004 or later. We would need to compare Chinese names, etc. to determine exactly when your group's finding ads were placed.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-13132121056247578472007-06-04T10:44:00.000-07:002007-06-04T10:44:00.000-07:00The largest increase in the Province was in Shangg...<I>The largest increase in the Province was in Shanggao, which saw its submissions rise from just eight in 2003 to 63 in 2006...</I><BR/><BR/>In 2004, we adopted our daughter from Jiangxi province, Shanggao orphanageSWI2003. In our travel group, there were six or seven other families who adopted children from that orphanage. Some, like ours, were in foster care for most of the time. All were about the same age, or at least had 2003 birthdays and/or "found" dates.<BR/><BR/>Is it possible that our group adopted all of the children Shanggao SWI submitted in 2003? That seems strange. I visited that orphanage in March 2004 and there seemed to be quite a few children there, most of them found in 2003.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18116372272883410329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-61024058036779820222007-06-04T05:21:00.000-07:002007-06-04T05:21:00.000-07:00Brian,Do you draw any conclusions as to why abando...Brian,<BR/><BR/>Do you draw any conclusions as to why abandonment rates might be falling? <BR/><BR/>It wouldn't be surprising that more families are choosing to parent their children given the better economic position of some families in China -- China is touting the 1.3 million people it raised from poverty last year. It also seems that the gender imbalance is softening the central government's stance on enforcement of the one family, one child policy. And some provinces are heavily promoting the value of daughters.<BR/><BR/>But it could also be a lower birth rate because of more contraceptive use and more abortions.<BR/><BR/>malindamalindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233439015219192874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-41822108651274963432007-06-03T20:38:00.000-07:002007-06-03T20:38:00.000-07:00In reply to Anonymous regarding agencies:I think t...In reply to Anonymous regarding agencies:<BR/><BR/>I think that agencies are in the unenviable position of being caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand they are interested in helping families as much as possible (hopefully), but on the other hand the CCAA has clearly communicated to them that "rocking the boat" will jeopardize their future ability to do adoptions in China. Thus, agencies generally discourage families from contacting the orphanages prior to adoption, discourage families from traveling to orphanages while adopting, and require all post-adoption contact to channel through the CCAA. <BR/><BR/>The agencies feel they must obey these restrictions out of fear of the CCAA. Thus, questions regarding the Hunan scandal, etc. are fraught with problems for agencies since asking the CCAA about these issues will likely result in reprimands. <BR/><BR/>The final result is you will not get much cooperation from agencies on these matters. But understand it is really not the agencies fault, since the restrictions are placed by the controlling force -- the CCAA.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-88119483378993659992007-06-03T20:31:00.000-07:002007-06-03T20:31:00.000-07:00M. Miler:I appreciate your input on Yongzhou. I t...M. Miler:<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your input on Yongzhou. I tried to soft pedal the assertions on Yongzhou because I realize there are factors that I am not aware of. <BR/><BR/>However, aside from the scandal orphanages, no orphanage has increased in adoptions as much as Yongzhou. It could very well be that abandonments in that area are increasing dramatically. <BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.com