tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post1636474949279251151..comments2024-03-10T15:13:47.148-07:00Comments on Research-China.Org: Creating "Paper-Ready Children"Research-China.Orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-46102176475849650702009-11-20T04:01:26.788-08:002009-11-20T04:01:26.788-08:00Many institutions limit access to their online inf...Many institutions limit access to their online information. Making this information available will be an asset to all.Paper Researchhttp://www.researchpaperspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-15156768642397641452007-11-11T08:16:00.000-08:002007-11-11T08:16:00.000-08:00The police report is available in your child's orp...The police report is available in your child's orphanage file, one of the only important documents that remains in the file. You might be able to obtain a copy by writing to the director. Seldom will you get a copy directly from the police, who usually simply refer you to the Civil Affairs officials.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-33199059048195091682007-11-10T23:32:00.000-08:002007-11-10T23:32:00.000-08:00Dear Bryan: As an adoptive mother I am really grat...Dear Bryan: As an adoptive mother I am really grateful for all your work and investigations. <BR/>Please, is it possible to get a copy of the original police report transferring our daugther to the orphanage?. You write here about this document and I think this paper would be very valuable for our daugther in the future. May be it can provide some additional information about her finding.<BR/>Which would be the steps to follow in order to get it?.<BR/>Thank you very much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-12883538883926856282007-06-08T14:20:00.000-07:002007-06-08T14:20:00.000-07:00CyberPanhandler:Fuzhou has an arrangement with the...CyberPanhandler:<BR/><BR/>Fuzhou has an arrangement with the Linchuan #2 orphanage to process children brought to that orphanage. Thus, to determine why a delay was made, one must determine if your child was originally brought to Linchuan #2 or Fuzhou City. <BR/><BR/>You have a good example, and I would like to pursue it further. You can e-mail me privately and we can see where the delay took place. <BR/><BR/>Generally, a look at the "age at referral" statistics show that over the last year, the ages have been trending lower. <BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-8859235089823425292007-06-08T12:56:00.000-07:002007-06-08T12:56:00.000-07:00Brian, I have an example for you. My daughter was...Brian, I have an example for you. My daughter was abandoned at 2.5 months and was in foster care through Fuzhou SWI from that point until she was handed to me at 15.5 months. She was almost 14 months old when she was referred to me. he had no special needs and no history of illness. I traveled with 6 other families to Nanchang in July of 2006 to adopt our children from Fuzhou SWI. All 7 of the children were NSN and all were toddlers. My daughter, at 15.5 months then, was one of the youngest. One other was 15.5 months, and the other 5 ranged in age from 18 to 24 months. All had been found either shortly after birth or within a few weeks to 2.5 months of birth, all had been in foster care since being found, and none had any history of illness. While I thank my lucky stars every morning that my daughter is with me because I can't imagine any other child in her place, we all wondered why our children had not been referred much earlier to other families.Emerson's Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00447992430538216747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-71728369664460808262007-03-20T18:49:00.000-07:002007-03-20T18:49:00.000-07:00Good question. I see the finding ads being placed...Good question. I see the finding ads being placed for older children, and many of them are found at older ages. Others have SN that are being fixed or corrected. But if anyone can point to a specific example of a healthy older child being submitted, and the orphanage she is adopted from, we can do some research.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-88940461545631936722007-03-20T18:10:00.000-07:002007-03-20T18:10:00.000-07:00While I think this blog makes a tremendous amount ...While I think this blog makes a tremendous amount of sense, it doesn't explain why there are still so many children which wait so long to have their files submitted. We continue to see older children, often with no special needs beyond age, come up on lists. There is no question in my mind that if our daughter's file had been submitted much earlier, she would have been adopted in a heartbeat (thank goodness for us, but not necessarily for her). So, if there is so much incentive for submitting files and there are no charges, why are there so many older children on waiting child lists...even while there are babies being submitted from the same orphanages?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-64124650227761626112007-03-11T06:55:00.000-07:002007-03-11T06:55:00.000-07:00Dear Emily's Parents:I'm not sure I follow your co...Dear Emily's Parents:<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I follow your comment, but will try to respond.<BR/><BR/>Since we are not given a clear picture of all that happens in China, we must make assumptions based on what we do know. We know how many children are adopted outside China to the U.S. every year. We do know that last year that number was down 20% from 2005. We do know that China had a baby-trafficking scandal that resulted in a large adoption province being restricted for 5 months of 2006. We know that almost all the directors, when asked by a domestic Chinese family if they had any children available for domestic adoption, said no. These same directors also stated that the number of healthy children in their orphanages was going down every year. They also stated that they have long waiting lists of families that were interested in adopting.<BR/><BR/>We know that these same directors indicated that as soon as a healthy child reaches 3-6 months old, the paperwork is started to adopt them internationally. <BR/><BR/>We do know that financial considerations play a substantial role in orphanages, and that therefore there is little reason for a director to intentionally prevent a child from being adopted. <BR/><BR/>Now, we DON'T know exactly how many children are abandoned each year, how many are brought to the orphanages, how many are informally adopted by families in China, etc. But in the final analysis that doesn't matter as much as the one thing we do know: There no longer seems to be enough healthy children to satisfy both domestic and international adoption.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-86783844179151065292007-03-10T21:56:00.000-08:002007-03-10T21:56:00.000-08:00The problem I encounter with this article is the s...The problem I encounter with this article is the same as I do with a number of your articles Brian, I find you to be inconsistent with your own writings. <BR/><BR/>"I estimate that there are around 250,000 children found every year which end up in China's orphanages (almost 40,000 in orphanages that do international adoptions). This figure is based on the number of finding ads placed in the Provincial newspapers each year, reporting the date and location for each foundling. How many are silently taken from the scene and raised in the village or town where they were found is unknown of course, but my instinct tells me it is also in the hundreds of thousands."<BR/><BR/>- Brian Stuy <BR/><BR/>http://research-china.blogspot.com/2005/08/chinas-missing-daughters.html<BR/><BR/>I really appreciated many of your articles back in 2005. Over time however, I feel you now mostly meander and drift around on matters related to China orphans and International adoption. Pesonally, I would like to see the old Brian back.Emily's Parentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03380548847475158522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-29139018057486039872007-02-21T11:26:00.000-08:002007-02-21T11:26:00.000-08:00Dear Anonymous:As is usually the case, another pos...Dear Anonymous:<BR/><BR/>As is usually the case, another post from an anonymous poster with little specifics. If you wish to really provide counter-evidence, provide the name of the orphanage you visited. I can then do some investigation. You can do so to my e-mail BrianStuy@research-china.org.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-62072580556872156112007-02-21T11:09:00.000-08:002007-02-21T11:09:00.000-08:00I CANNOT believe your propoganda !!You are very mi...I CANNOT believe your propoganda !!<BR/>You are very misinformed/ignorant person! How I WISH I could tell you what I saw in China last year it was DESPERATE inside the orphanage I went to so so so many children.Please for the sake of these children in China STOP this misguided crusade I beg of youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-18524131516543584382007-02-13T19:10:00.000-08:002007-02-13T19:10:00.000-08:00wow Thanks Brian. That was info that I did not kn...wow Thanks Brian. That was info that I did not know. Guess we were the lucky ones to get a child from Hefei from the sounds of it. The SWI is in pristine condition and looks more like a well maintained day care center than an orphanage. And the work that Half the Sky does there is incredible. I did assume that the paper work was sent over at the same time as the referral photos, but it seems odd that some people get referred children as young as 6 months old, yet our children were all 13 months old or older at the time. Perhaps it's just a matter of when CCAA looks at the info sent in. We had asked for an older toddler so we were blessed with our request, but the other two were hoping for younger toddlers in the 6-9 month range.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-79067240519883823382007-02-13T18:20:00.000-08:002007-02-13T18:20:00.000-08:00I appreciate Cady Chase bringing specific informat...I appreciate Cady Chase bringing specific information to the table. I happen to be familiar with the Hefei orphanage, and here is the current situation there:<BR/><BR/>There are currently several hundred children in the Hefei orphanage, 95% of which are special needs. Last year (2006) over 40 children were adopted by international families.<BR/><BR/>Hefei's paperwork process is nearly identical to that outlined in this essay. The orphanage waits two months before any paperwork is prepared in order to evaluate the healthy and demeanor of the child. The paperwork on all the adoptable children is then forwarded to the Civil Affairs Bureau for domestic or international adoption. Although referral photos, progress reports, etc. are taken a few months before the child is referred, the paperwork has been in the "pipeline" for much longer.<BR/><BR/>Parents must be careful before assuming that the paperwork that is received by them at referral is the first paperwork submitted by the orphanage. <BR/><BR/>I confirmed the number of children in Hefei this evening, and was told that there are very few healthy children in the orphanage.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-29678361172541104152007-02-13T15:37:00.000-08:002007-02-13T15:37:00.000-08:00Our daughter is from Hefei. She was found at 4 da...Our daughter is from Hefei. She was found at 4 days old, and her referral picture was taken when she was 10 months old. In her SWI, she played in a playroom on the 3rd floor with ONLY NSN children, and there were many children there in that room when we visited. The SN children were on a different floor, regardless of their severity. This was made very clear to us during the visit.<BR/><BR/>If your conclusion is correct, that it is not based on paper ready children instead of healthy children, and that all the NSN children are available for adoption almost immediately, and information is sent to CCAA usually within days of being found, then; <BR/>1. it would seem that there would have been many less children in her age group, in the playroom, in her age group, playing around when we visited. This was a floor specifically for NSN children. <BR/>2. It took, apparently, 10 months after finding her, for the director of the SWI to submit her information to CCAA. So, this does not substantiate your claim that they are sent to CCAA usually after finding them. Or perhaps it is just the way that this particular SWI operates. <BR/>3. If all healthy children are submitted for adoption from every SWI that adopts IA, then there would be more (possibly as many) children adopted from the Hefei SWI as any other SWI that participates in IA. But that is not the case. I've searched and searched, and have only found a few adoptive families that state they adopted a child from Anhui province or the Hefei SWI. All three of the children in our group were between 13 and 17 months old, and all three had been there since early infancy. <BR/>So, your previous statements <BR/>"There is no difference. The directors submit the paperwork for all healthy children to the Civil Affairs (which then forwards the paperwork to the CCAA for international adoption) almost as soon as they are found." <BR/>does not seem to apply to at least one SWI.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-85474103529894517182007-02-13T10:11:00.000-08:002007-02-13T10:11:00.000-08:00Anonymous brings up some interesting points, which...Anonymous brings up some interesting points, which deserve to be revisited.<BR/><BR/>First, the abortion issue is obviously unanswerable given the current data. Any published figure (from humanitarian groups, etc.) are just guesses. The Chinese simply don't publish accurate figures. Additionally, availability of ultrasound technology does not indicate that families utilize that technology to perform sex-selection abortions. They may, but again this whole discussion is based on conjecture and supposition, not any hard data. <BR/><BR/>As far as visiting orphanages is concerned (and I have stated this several times already), walking into an orphanage and seeing children walking around being tended proves nothing. I have been in over 60 orphanages, and even my experience shows nothing. One simply can't determine the status of children by "walking around". Are those children healthy? Is their paperwork in process? Unless one asks such questions, visual assessments are meaningless. <BR/><BR/>Anonymous tries to once again bring up the assertion that there is somehow a large difference between available children and "paper-ready" children. This assertion is made by mis-informed people who simply have not even asked a director to explain the process. There is no difference. The directors submit the paperwork for all healthy children to the Civil Affairs (which then forwards the paperwork to the CCAA for international adoption) almost as soon as they are found. There is no financial, moral, or procedural reason not to. Whenever I visit an orphanage, I inquire as to the status of the children we see, and I have NEVER had a director say, "Although these children are healthy, we want to keep them here so that "there will be more to marry and more to do laborous work in the future."" Such thinking is ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>So, although I can appreciate the witness of adoptive families visiting orphanages, their evidence is usually of little value unless they dig deeper and gain insight into the health and status of those children. <BR/><BR/>Ms. Russell is like many adoptive families. She went to China thinking that the orphanages were (are) full of children needing homes, and is now unwilling to alter that paradigm when conflicting information is presented. The CCAA, logic, and my research conclusively shows that this is no longer the case.<BR/><BR/>BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-460759065641413872007-02-13T09:23:00.000-08:002007-02-13T09:23:00.000-08:00Brian, I appreciate your viewpoint on a lot of thi...Brian, I appreciate your viewpoint on a lot of things, in fact, we often think alike. However on this post, there are a few statements that I question. <BR/>First, you are bashing an adoptive parent, not necessarily for her viewpoint, but for the numbers that she maintains for her viewpoint. The numbers are not as important as the theory she presents. You state that she's only visited one or two SWIs and draws her conclusions from that. And you know this because??? It seems you are placing the same (but your own) ignorance onto her statements as you claim she and other adoptive parents have. If you are going to draw conclusions that you consider to be fact, then please do not bash others for your assumptions. It discredit's your thesis.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, you refer a few times about the survey that you conducted with rural families, concerning selective abortions. No matter how many RURAL families you survey, your results should always be the same. The reasons for that are obvious, and two fold. Rural familes would not have in their budget to hire a doctor willing to perform an abortion. Also, IF they did, poorer class people would be much less likely to admit it because they can not afford to be repremanded, and taken away from the only source of income they might have, -their contributions to manual labor, even if it's for just a little while. Have you considered conducting a servey with city folks? If you don't then your stitistics mean very little. <BR/><BR/>And third, from what I understand, the Chinese officials are NOT claiming there are not enough healthy children, they are claiming there are not enough PAPER READY, healthy children. BIG difference there! Regardless, it makes perfect sense to me that they would want to keep and raise more healthy girls in an SWI's, so that there will be more to marry and more to do laborous work in the future. <BR/>I also think, that in a comunistic country, such as China, there's a lot of governmental influence to "say the right thing", and people will, for fear of being impressioned. You don't hear much about the criminal elements in China, and their prison and/or repremand system is most likely the reason for that. <BR/>Just out of curiosity, how many SWIs have you been to personally, to view SN children vs healthy children in each institute? Sure, Ms. Russell visted maybe one or two....but I have also visited two (once in 2004 and once in 2006), there were a lot of healthy children running around or being tended to, both times. I also have several online friends that have gone to one or two SWIs and seen the same thing. When one considers not just one or two visits from one person....but rather, 50 or more visits from various people that I of know....Then it becomes more clear that some of what Ms Russle says, might be accurate information. Instead, you expose ONE person's experience, you then shove it aside and present your argument, which is based on larger elements than her own. You are comparing your findings to hers (your findings are obviously larger than one adoptive parent's findings) But if you combine the findings of all adoptive parents that have gone to different SWIs, that would be a larger findings and more of a variety for the survey than your own....So, it's all relative. <BR/>That said, I do believe there are less healthy children that are paper ready, but I do not believe there is a substantial decrease of healthy children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-26374467955651303402007-01-25T05:50:00.000-08:002007-01-25T05:50:00.000-08:00It is a little hard to know, as we only know about...It is a little hard to know, as we only know about the ones that are found alive. My belief is that most children are left with the idea that the finder will raise them (if left at a person's house, business, etc.) or will be cared for by the state (orphanage, hospital, etc.) I don't think many people would intentionally leave a child to die.<br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-29097445535957830462007-01-25T05:33:00.000-08:002007-01-25T05:33:00.000-08:00If I may ask, do you think that abandonment is don...If I may ask, do you think that abandonment is done for the express purpose of having the child brought up in an orphanage, or are some of these children being "exposed" as a form of infanticide? I guess I'm asking, are there many baby girls found dead, or are most being left safely to be found soon after their abandonment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-32662422059368744702007-01-23T05:45:00.000-08:002007-01-23T05:45:00.000-08:00Additionally, the birth mothers I have spoken with...Additionally, the birth mothers I have spoken with have all been from neighboring villages, not their own village. Thus, I believe that most babies are found close to their birth parents, but not right next door. That said, often there is a connection between the finding location and the birthparents. <br /><br />BrianResearch-China.Orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137919637778021754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-7862039920678293062007-01-23T00:30:00.000-08:002007-01-23T00:30:00.000-08:00Stan,
I feel qualified to answer your question. I...Stan,<br /><br />I feel qualified to answer your question. I live in China and have spent the last 3.5 years working in an orphanage. <br /><br />Most people go outside of their area to abandon children that are old enough to talk- we know this because they come in speaking a strange dialect. Not Mandarin or our local dialect.They can't tell the ayis where they live because they are too young to know. I'm sure for infants, it doesn't matter as long as they can abandon them without being caught.<br /><br />For the other question, it is common for a pregnant woman to "have her baby" and then her husband shows up and says that the baby died. It would take an idiot to believe that all these babies are dying in childbirth, it is logical that many of them are the abandoned babies that are found in train stations, hospitals and alongside the road. <br /><br />I have seen it and heard it from the mouths of our ayis (nannies that work in the orphanage)I don't post this lightly, I only post what I know to be true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-13455894554172461782007-01-21T09:03:00.000-08:002007-01-21T09:03:00.000-08:00I agree with the last post to a point. We are real...I agree with the last post to a point. We are really entering a period of unknowns and everything is conjecture/ speculation at this time. <br /><br />If the number is true of 25,000 in process applications in December 06, plus a rush of applications in anticipation of the new rules - you could potentially have up to 40,000 pending applications in June. <br /><br />The China program, be it fewer available children, an internal IA quota, Hague implementation, limited CCAA recourses (I believe it to be a combination of all these) has a real issue with supply and demand. Bottom line - the wait times can only get longer.<br /><br />I know if I were adopting again, China would not be my first choice - Not because of any internal / ethical questions with the system or lack of desire in the China program, but rather the uncertainty and knowingly accepting this uncertainty and potential long wait. <br /><br />I applaud those who are patient, but two- three years is a very long time to be waiting. I would recommend to a childless couple to look at all options before putting all their efforts into China at this time. The stress on a marriage, and unless you are strong enough to keep your life going and not get absorbed in it all, will have an effect on you - particularly if you have gone through a lot of infertility treatments. <br /><br />To those who stay - in the end it is worth it and I would not change our decision to adopt, but it dose not come without an emotional and personal cost, which can only be magnified with certain long wait times and how you choose to live your life during those wait times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-24979367083549753282007-01-20T09:04:00.000-08:002007-01-20T09:04:00.000-08:00"China has always provided referrals to those that..."China has always provided referrals to those that meet their current criteria. They will provide referrals to all those logged-in up until the day they determine. Therefore, the number of children adopted internationally is, in fact, determined by the number of qualified families wishing to adopt."<br /><br />China modifies its criteria to reduce demand. The demand for healthy infants is much higher than the supply of adoptable infants. Therefore the number of children adopted internationally is determined by the supply of Children not parents.<br /><br />This is unlikely to change unless infertilty rates drop or women suddenly decide they don't want to be mothers. I don't see either happening anytime soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-88110288045186440292007-01-19T19:44:00.000-08:002007-01-19T19:44:00.000-08:00"All healthy infants the CCAA wants to be adopted ..."All healthy infants the CCAA wants to be adopted internationaly are going to find a home." But that's my point exactly. If and when China decides to stop international adoption, they will likely say something like "those not logged-in by X day..." China has always provided referrals to those that meet their current criteria. They will provide referrals to all those logged-in up until the day they determine. Therefore, the number of children adopted internationally is, in fact, determined by the number of qualified families wishing to adopt. If a qualified family chooses not to apply, one less child goes home. There is no guarantee these children would be referred to domestic families instead. (Although I would like to think that if they stop IA it would be because they are confident that they can place all children domestically.)<br /><br />D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-89979074280760307182007-01-19T13:29:00.000-08:002007-01-19T13:29:00.000-08:00When children are abandoned, do the parents go o...When children are abandoned, do the parents go outside of their village to neigboring village or largr city to do so. Or is it so common and "expected"and no one takes a second look if a woman obviosly pregant shows up one day no long with child.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15636692.post-31844637780728552582007-01-19T11:58:00.000-08:002007-01-19T11:58:00.000-08:00"However, one thing I do know. If my husband and m..."However, one thing I do know. If my husband and myself were to drop out of the program, one less orphan would find his/her forever family. Of course I know that the next family in line would gladly adopt "our" child. But down the line... one less child would find a home."<br /><br />You can't possibly "know" this. What you are suggesting is the supply of adoptive parents is limited and the supply of healthy children limited only by the Chinese government. In reality, the supply of adoptive parents is being limited by the government. There seems to be no shortage right now and should one develop, the Chinese will relax the new restrictions. All healthy infants the CCAA wants to be adopted internationaly are going to find a home.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com